Although the fiddle usually plays the melody, there are times when I want to back others up on the fiddle. I'm music theory illiterate, and would like to know some tips for backing others up on the fiddle.
What, do you mean with, like, chords/double stops/harmony, Troy? It's rather un-Irish, at least, Irish trad music speaking from the purist standpoint, anyway. At any rate -- start with the chord the guitarist is using and go from there.
Yes. If you want to play a supportive role to complement someone else's playing. Do you just kind of wander around playing notes that sound good? Do I learn mandolin chords and play round them in the back ground?
Do all you fiddlers out there just play melody all the time and never try a supportive role?
Usually. I play double-stop "drones" while George (our guitar player) and Dirk (playing whistle) play Ask My Father, but that's about it. Sometimes if George is singing a song and accompanying himself on the guitar I'll throw in a kind of descant line style o'fing. But largely we play Irish trad music, so, usually, that's about right. Nobody's ever really said they feel that anything's lacking from our playing.
Sean Smyth sometimes plays a bit of rhythm fiddle (using double stops) in the background of a couple of tracks on Lunasa recordings...you might check those out if that's something you want to do...
Drones can be okay. I would have thought counterpoints would be safer, especially if your a lead player. As for double stops and chords, I dunno. It takes several years to learn what chords sound good, and there aren't many tutor books out there. So unless you're a very very fast learner, I'm tempted to say leave it to the backers.
As has been said (and disputed) many times before in this forum, if you want to back a tune, you must learn the tune. However with careful use of melodic variation, two fiddlers playing melody together can produce enough incidental chords to create a full sound without significantly deviating from the basic melody line. To my ear, on fiddle, this type of 'heterophony' is better suited to Irish music than chords.
Sorry, Troy, in this music there's no getting around just learning the tunes. Two of us on fiddles do some "doubling"--playing an octave apart--and we have a few airs where we do harmony parts, but not much. The only time I do backing is when someone accidentally plays an old timey or bluegrass tune and I'll play some shuffle bows on double stops or the off-beat on-the-frog chucks common to bluegrass (and I never quite know whether I'm spoofing the player or encouraging him/her). That happens about once in a blue moon, tough, and it's a clear deviation from the Irish tunes. I'd never do any of that behind a trad Irish player.
I know the tune "Sheebeg Sheemore" isn't a reel or jig, but there are a couple of harmonizations/counterpoints to it in the comments to the tune on the database. They might be useful to look at.
Backing on the Fiddle
Backing on the Fiddle
Although the fiddle usually plays the melody, there are times when I want to back others up on the fiddle. I'm music theory illiterate, and would like to know some tips for backing others up on the fiddle.
-Troy
# Posted on January 18th 2003 by RTP
Re: Backing on the Fiddle
What, do you mean with, like, chords/double stops/harmony, Troy? It's rather un-Irish, at least, Irish trad music speaking from the purist standpoint, anyway. At any rate -- start with the chord the guitarist is using and go from there.
Zina
# Posted on January 18th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Backing on the Fiddle
Yes. If you want to play a supportive role to complement someone else's playing. Do you just kind of wander around playing notes that sound good? Do I learn mandolin chords and play round them in the back ground?
Do all you fiddlers out there just play melody all the time and never try a supportive role?
-Troy
# Posted on January 18th 2003 by RTP
Re: Backing on the Fiddle
Usually. I play double-stop "drones" while George (our guitar player) and Dirk (playing whistle) play Ask My Father, but that's about it. Sometimes if George is singing a song and accompanying himself on the guitar I'll throw in a kind of descant line style o'fing. But largely we play Irish trad music, so, usually, that's about right. Nobody's ever really said they feel that anything's lacking from our playing.
Sean Smyth sometimes plays a bit of rhythm fiddle (using double stops) in the background of a couple of tracks on Lunasa recordings...you might check those out if that's something you want to do...
zls
# Posted on January 18th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Backing on the Fiddle
Drones can be okay. I would have thought counterpoints would be safer, especially if your a lead player. As for double stops and chords, I dunno. It takes several years to learn what chords sound good, and there aren't many tutor books out there. So unless you're a very very fast learner, I'm tempted to say leave it to the backers.
# Posted on January 19th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Backing on the Fiddle
As has been said (and disputed) many times before in this forum, if you want to back a tune, you must learn the tune. However with careful use of melodic variation, two fiddlers playing melody together can produce enough incidental chords to create a full sound without significantly deviating from the basic melody line. To my ear, on fiddle, this type of 'heterophony' is better suited to Irish music than chords.
# Posted on January 20th 2003 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Backing on the Fiddle
Sorry, Troy, in this music there's no getting around just learning the tunes. Two of us on fiddles do some "doubling"--playing an octave apart--and we have a few airs where we do harmony parts, but not much. The only time I do backing is when someone accidentally plays an old timey or bluegrass tune and I'll play some shuffle bows on double stops or the off-beat on-the-frog chucks common to bluegrass (and I never quite know whether I'm spoofing the player or encouraging him/her). That happens about once in a blue moon, tough, and it's a clear deviation from the Irish tunes. I'd never do any of that behind a trad Irish player.
# Posted on January 20th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Backing on the Fiddle
I know the tune "Sheebeg Sheemore" isn't a reel or jig, but there are a couple of harmonizations/counterpoints to it in the comments to the tune on the database. They might be useful to look at.
trevor
# Posted on January 21st 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Backing on the Fiddle
Thanks all. I downloaded the harmonizition for Sheebeg Sheemore. It works well!
-Troy
# Posted on January 21st 2003 by RTP