On the session homepage, Jeremy says "This website is one way of passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes". Is it also to be one way of passing on songs and slow airs? What do people think of this? I assume that Jeremy doesn't mind as there are now lots and lots of these on the database, complete with unreadable sheetmusic files. Personally I disagree with the submission of songs and slow airs, and think that anyone who submits submits them should be stripped naked, hung upside down from the ceiling and used as target practice for aubergine-throwing contests.
You know yourself that it wasn't originally intended for slow airs but, then again, the likes of marches, barn dances can't be catered for either...at least, not officially.
A slow air is a very individial thing anyway and it isn't possible to transcribe it in a form which will do it justice, even allowing for the fact that it doesn't have a set time signature, i.e it could be 6/8, 4/4 etc.
However, the same could be said for many of tunes here. We have only the "bare bones" in a lot of cases. If it is a genuine slow air, I don't see the problem in posting it with the proviso that one should make an effort to listen to it actually being played by another musician(s) before tackling it. The same applies to any tune, of course.
I don't think that this is the place for songs but there's no harm in *mentioning* that the melodies of certain songs are also tunes or vice versa. We don't need to know the words. However, a song melody and the actual tune(whichever came first) is seldom identical so this can lead to confusion in sessions when players will play the "song melody" instead of the tune...e.g Hamish Henderson's "Banks of Sicily" instead of "Farewell to The Creeks" and so on. I'm sure you could come up with a few more examples.
Given that songs are commonly sung from time to time in sessions, I've always wondered why there wasn't a category for posting songs.
But, apart from that, having a separate category for songs might actually improve the situation by letting folks post an song as a song with a specific melody and with its own comments and alternative name, noting it's relationship to tunes. The ensuing discussion might shed more light on the confusions(s) since the focus would be on the song and its air per se, and not merely as a sidebar to a discussion of a tune.
Here's an example of how a category for songs might help:
Recently I was looking about for a specific song sung to the air Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine (the Edorian hornpipe) following up a lovely lyric fragment sung by Micho Russell on his recording of the tune.
"Thinking of some events at home the other night,
Sitting by the turf fire and the turf fire burning bright
Soon the fire began to fade and shadows o'er me flew
And that was another (r....?) in my grand dissolving view."
The discussion threads on various Napolean or Bonaparte tunes
This tune is listed twice as an A dorian hornpipe and an E dorian hornpipe) and an A mix barndance with references to Scottish march as an ancestor. Along with wide-range speculation on which tune family it belongs to, each listing had various strands of discussion mentioning songs tied it to the various names of the tune, especially the Star of the County Down (2rd cousin more than sibling, I'd say)
But here is where the confusion starts. Lyrics to Red Haired Boy and the Star the County Down were offered as well as references to tunes Hot Asphalt, Mick Maguire, and Galway to Dublin title. However, the discussion was soon confounded by the fact that there is a very different tune out mainly played in the US by exactly the same set of names plus a few, more or less, and which does have song versions.
Oh, and does anyone recognize the song fragment that Micho Russell sang?
This is SO annoying as I actually agree with Dow. Grrrr.....
But to be serious, that is basically what Mudcat and other sites do.
Eg, here's Arthur McBride: http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=341
Over it's tunes and stuff related (and not so related) to sessions. That at least is my take on it.
Having read Dow's suggested punishment I've suddenly become inflamed with the desire to submit songs. Lots of songs. Perhaps even some Bay City Roller numbers if that will make the aubergines squishier.
I certainly plead guilty to submitting song tunes and slow tunes that have a definite rhythm of one of the types that The Session tune system provides for, and might conceivably be of interest to an instrumentalist out there. And having done that, if it's a song, why not bang in the words?
My main problem is that all the trad ITM dance tunes I know are in the system already, or else (from various traditions) are newly composed by people who might not want them disseminated - yet, at any rate. And I'm addicted to putting tunes in...but if I'm doing the wrong thing here, I'll try to cut back some.
I've never come across a squishy aubergine, unless they get like that at the bottom of a compost heap. All nomal aubergines that fly in my direction will be gratefully accepted and turned into Moussaka or Imam Bayildi.
As a suggestion, then, if you submit song tunes as does nicholas, why don't you submit the lyrics in the comments section? Or provide a link to the lyrics at Mudcat?
Submitting songs
Submitting songs
On the session homepage, Jeremy says "This website is one way of passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes". Is it also to be one way of passing on songs and slow airs? What do people think of this? I assume that Jeremy doesn't mind as there are now lots and lots of these on the database, complete with unreadable sheetmusic files. Personally I disagree with the submission of songs and slow airs, and think that anyone who submits submits them should be stripped naked, hung upside down from the ceiling and used as target practice for aubergine-throwing contests.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Dr. Dow
Re: Submitting songs
You know yourself that it wasn't originally intended for slow airs but, then again, the likes of marches, barn dances can't be catered for either...at least, not officially.
A slow air is a very individial thing anyway and it isn't possible to transcribe it in a form which will do it justice, even allowing for the fact that it doesn't have a set time signature, i.e it could be 6/8, 4/4 etc.
However, the same could be said for many of tunes here. We have only the "bare bones" in a lot of cases. If it is a genuine slow air, I don't see the problem in posting it with the proviso that one should make an effort to listen to it actually being played by another musician(s) before tackling it. The same applies to any tune, of course.
I don't think that this is the place for songs but there's no harm in *mentioning* that the melodies of certain songs are also tunes or vice versa. We don't need to know the words. However, a song melody and the actual tune(whichever came first) is seldom identical so this can lead to confusion in sessions when players will play the "song melody" instead of the tune...e.g Hamish Henderson's "Banks of Sicily" instead of "Farewell to The Creeks" and so on. I'm sure you could come up with a few more examples.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by John J.
Re: Submitting songs
Given that songs are commonly sung from time to time in sessions, I've always wondered why there wasn't a category for posting songs.
But, apart from that, having a separate category for songs might actually improve the situation by letting folks post an song as a song with a specific melody and with its own comments and alternative name, noting it's relationship to tunes. The ensuing discussion might shed more light on the confusions(s) since the focus would be on the song and its air per se, and not merely as a sidebar to a discussion of a tune.
Here's an example of how a category for songs might help:
Recently I was looking about for a specific song sung to the air Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine (the Edorian hornpipe) following up a lovely lyric fragment sung by Micho Russell on his recording of the tune.
"Thinking of some events at home the other night,
Sitting by the turf fire and the turf fire burning bright
Soon the fire began to fade and shadows o'er me flew
And that was another (r....?) in my grand dissolving view."
The discussion threads on various Napolean or Bonaparte tunes
This tune is listed twice as an A dorian hornpipe and an E dorian hornpipe) and an A mix barndance with references to Scottish march as an ancestor. Along with wide-range speculation on which tune family it belongs to, each listing had various strands of discussion mentioning songs tied it to the various names of the tune, especially the Star of the County Down (2rd cousin more than sibling, I'd say)
But here is where the confusion starts. Lyrics to Red Haired Boy and the Star the County Down were offered as well as references to tunes Hot Asphalt, Mick Maguire, and Galway to Dublin title. However, the discussion was soon confounded by the fact that there is a very different tune out mainly played in the US by exactly the same set of names plus a few, more or less, and which does have song versions.
Oh, and does anyone recognize the song fragment that Micho Russell sang?
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by ratbiscuit
Re: Submitting songs
'scuse the fragment in the middle, I meant for it to give the URLs...
The discussion threads on various Napolean or Bonaparte tunes:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/3056
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1464
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/7
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by ratbiscuit
Re: Submitting songs
This is SO annoying as I actually agree with Dow. Grrrr.....
But to be serious, that is basically what Mudcat and other sites do.
Eg, here's Arthur McBride:
http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=341
Over it's tunes and stuff related (and not so related) to sessions. That at least is my take on it.
# Posted on February 11th 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Submitting songs
Having read Dow's suggested punishment I've suddenly become inflamed with the desire to submit songs. Lots of songs. Perhaps even some Bay City Roller numbers if that will make the aubergines squishier.
...I hope that's not giving too much away.
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by Ger the Rigger
Re: Submitting songs
I certainly plead guilty to submitting song tunes and slow tunes that have a definite rhythm of one of the types that The Session tune system provides for, and might conceivably be of interest to an instrumentalist out there. And having done that, if it's a song, why not bang in the words?
My main problem is that all the trad ITM dance tunes I know are in the system already, or else (from various traditions) are newly composed by people who might not want them disseminated - yet, at any rate. And I'm addicted to putting tunes in...but if I'm doing the wrong thing here, I'll try to cut back some.
I've never come across a squishy aubergine, unless they get like that at the bottom of a compost heap. All nomal aubergines that fly in my direction will be gratefully accepted and turned into Moussaka or Imam Bayildi.
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Submitting songs
As a suggestion, then, if you submit song tunes as does nicholas, why don't you submit the lyrics in the comments section? Or provide a link to the lyrics at Mudcat?
# Posted on February 12th 2007 by Rudall the time