hello there!
i was wondering if any of you guys and gals could help me out with some coursework.
we have been told to compose a piece of music and perform that piece and three other pieces of the same style.
i thought i would like to compose some kind of jig or reel as i finding three pieces that are also jigs or reels will be no problem.
but after a writing down a few notes the piece allways ends up turning into another piece.
also does anyone know the characteristics of a jig or whatever as when i play a piece i cant work out the key or time signature.
so......does anyone have any tips for composing tunes
OOOOOooooooooooooo! Goooooooood post, Andy! I'll be sure to follow it.
Brother Steve's Whistle site has good information on jig styling. I think you'll find it helpful when planning your piece and fine-tuning it once you have a basic tune in place: http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/tricky.html
If I understand you correctly, you have difficulty notating what you create and play? There are softwares that will notate from a recording on your computer, but they aren't perfect. You can do it yourself as well, but it's a slow process. I have this saved in my goodie bag...maybe it will help?
One of my whistle book has some basic information on the structure of the various irish tune types. It's "Learn to Play the Irish Whistle" by L. E. McCullough. Using that as a guide, I was able to see that most tunes are made of parts that are repeated. It helps me when learning a tune to recognize and isolate the parts. I would think this would help in writing tunes?
You've set yourself no easy task, Andy, and yet once you learn how to compose music--and write it down in--you'll enjoy how easy and rewarding it can become.
A jig is a good start. Here are some basic guidelines for writing a simple Irish-style jig.
It's in 6/8 time, which means you need six eighth notes (or the equivalent, such as a quarter note and 4 eighth notes).
Most Irish jigs come in two parts. You can think of them as the first half and the second half. Or Part A and Part B (this way, you can always add on a Part C or D).
Each part should be 8 measures (or bars) long. So Part A will look like this:
Notice I left out a beat in the last measure. That's because it sounds good to hold the note you end on. Part B would look pretty much the same.
Of course, you don't have to use 6 eighth notes for every bar. Lots of jigs (notably "single jigs") use a fair amount of quarter notes. It might look like this (the quarter notes have a space after them):
|123 1 3|123 123|1 3 1 3|123 123| etc...
Now onto the actual notes. First pick a starting note. Lots of Irish jigs are in the keys of D or G...let's do G major just for an example. I don't have to start on G just because I'm in G major, so I'm going to try B and see where it takes me.
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
K: Gmaj
|BAG ABc|
Okay, there's a start. Six eighth notes, pretty much just noodling around in a G major scale. That "ABc" part makes me want to go higher in pitch, so:
|BAG ABc|BdB gfe|
Now I've got a whole "phrase," the real building block of a tune. I can probably use that same phrase again in--it's common in Irish tunes to repeat phrases like this. But now I want to break up this string of eighth notes, and I want to create a sense of anticipation, so I need to get out of the general G major noise I'm making so far and come up with something that would sound good with a C or D chord, say.
BAG ABc|BdB gfe|d3 dcB|cBc A2...
Okay, now I can hear the tune shaping up. I've linked two phrases together, each one is two measures long, so they create a "structure" for the tune. I want to keep this tune fairly simple, so I'll do the expected thing...repeat the first phrase:
And now I need an ending for the fist half of the tune. I want to "resolve" to G, and there's a zillion ways to do it. Let's try:
|dcB cBA|BAF G2..
Well, it works, but it's not very imaginative. How about:
|d2 B cBA|
and now what?
|d2 B cBA|DEF G2....
That's more like it! I like the pounce onto the d2, and the next note B becomes a pick up note to swing onto the cBA part, and the low growly DEF are a nice surprise after all the higher pitched phrases. And it lands me back on G, where I want to be. So the first half (Part A) now looks like this:
Notice that I added an A at the end of the last measure...this let's me jump back into the BAG at the start of the tune. I also put in the repeat symbols, reminding myself to play this part twice before going to the next part of the tune.
Now you just keep going...follow the melody where it leads you. Of course, you need to write your own Part A first....
Hope this helps. And if it raises more questions than it answers, fire away. I'll check in again later today.
I find that thinking too much about it stifles it, in a non-arty-pretentious way =) Just keep playing, after a bit something'll stick.... or you'll scream and chuck instrument A out of window... Let's all hope for the former...
Cait, that's usually how I do it too. I assumed Andy was looking for a more structured approach, just as a way to get started. But then I don't even know what GCSE stands for....
Most tunes either just fall into my lap basically whole, or they creep out of mindless noodling. But sometimes it's fun to set up a few constraints and see how creative you can be to shape a tune around them. Like, it's relatively easy to come up with an original sequence of otherwise random notes. But what happens when you try to find a new, interesting way to get from c natural to a in 4/4, D mix, in one measure (4 beats)?
Heh, reminds me of creative writing classes where the teach would ask for a sonnet about the Rotor Rooter man....
A great technical description from Will as usual. Now for something different.
Inspiration comes to us at different times, places and circumstances. Keep a tape recorder handy especially in the car. If the tunes you start to compose begin to cycle back to a familiar tune of a different genre or even the Irish genre then get away from them. Listen to a country station if you don't listen to it normally. A spanish language station, anything that won't lead your brain into a preprogrammed path. Sometimes a series of of 3,4,6,8 - whatever notes might catch you. Turn off the radio and let your brain fly into the music. Use the recorder if you get stuck. By the time I'm done - the first notes I heard from the radio my be gone but I have a tune. I try it out on my friends to see if it's worthy.
I have written and thought out many melodies. They were pleasing enough but they failed to inspire me for very long. One of our members suggested that I should run these tunes by some of the session members. Let them take a stab at the tune and see if they can tweak it here and there. I'll try that next time I plan to get inspired.
GCSE = General Certificate of Secondary Education. A qualification school children take in the UK at the ages of 15/16. Most take GCSE in 10 or more subjects. If reasonably successful they can stay on to 18 and take Advanced Level in 3 subjects (usually), good grades in which are required for entrance to university.
Will - I'm guessing yours was the more helpful. I'm not so good at structure or anything of direct use =)
Mark - I get the same thing. I can turn out a tune, but I'll bore of it easily far more than a *random* tune. It seems kind of insipid.
So then I try so hard to create *the perfect tune* each time, it doesn't work... If anything, sounds worse.
I'd like to hear what Andy comes up with. I was just trying to give him a breakdown of the elements that go into a jig, from the composer's point of view. It's not how I come up with tunes...I'm much less structured. Usually some little phrase pops into my head and then the rest unfolds like it's the fiddle talking to me. But there are certain sideboards you have to deal with if you want the tune to sound Irish or traditional or whatever.
I think the combination of all our advice should steer Andy in a useful direction.....
Might be fun to try building "round robin" tunes. You post a part and a name suggestion. Others add on, tweak, twist and change...and suggest a name as it goes. See what we end up with. Hmmm, hoping it wouldn't be "It takes a village to raise a child; it takes a discussion board to write a bad tune with a weird name." Oh, I'm not calling what you created thus far bad, Will. I haven't even played it!
....a game of musical consequences. But each person would have to compose the next phrase blind, or rather, deaf - that is to say, not having heard the foregoing phrases. Of course, it would end up sounding like an old horned sheep with the body of a yellow cow, peacock's feathers and a swallow's tail.
hello everyone!
sorry i am abit slow getting round to replying. i have been really busy with bloody coursework the past few days, all the teachers have suddenly chucked it at us all at once.
thanks very much for your replies, i have read them through but am on the way out to a session, i will read them through again tomorrow evening. thanks Will for the technical details and that, i am abit confused by key signatures, i understand what a D chord is but im not sure what other chords should be in a piece in this key. what did you mean when you said about "resolving the piece?" is it when you end it in a key that sounds natural kinda thing?
Yes, Andy, "resolve" in this sense means that satisfied feeling you get when a tune ends (or resolves) on the "right" note or chord. The notes just before it should give a feeling of anticipation or even suspense, and then the "resolve" brings it to a close. Think of singing "Ahhhhh....men" in church, or "...in days of auld lang (that's the suspense) syne (that's the resolve)."
Andy, if you want someone to check it as coursework then send it to me somehow when you've finished it and I'll do that. I teach GCSE music as well as playing the fiddle. Just get something down either on paper or as a recording and then we can improve it.
hi Dan, im still working on it. its getting close now. everyone else in my group has got alot done and i still havent got a note down. i do know i am going to do a jig,
i seem to lack any imagination in composition, everytune i think of turns into tune i already can play. i have a double session of music tommorow and im gonna start have a GOOD read through all of these posts
Perhaps if you keep ending up in a known tune, take out every other note or use only the beginning beats of each measure and compress into the beginnings of something original to work with?
When studying composition it helps to look at the rise and fall of the tune. If you look at many of the tunes printed in O'Neill, say, you'll see that the A part is often in the lower octave and the B part, by contrast, is a lot higher. If the A part starts with a rising series of notes it's a nice contrast to have the B part start high and then fall. And notice the way in which a bar, or two bars, is often repeated with slight variation, and how a two-bar phrase often "asks a question" which is "answered" by the next two-bar phrase.
GCSE composition help!!!
GCSE composition help!!!
hello there!
i was wondering if any of you guys and gals could help me out with some coursework.
we have been told to compose a piece of music and perform that piece and three other pieces of the same style.
i thought i would like to compose some kind of jig or reel as i finding three pieces that are also jigs or reels will be no problem.
but after a writing down a few notes the piece allways ends up turning into another piece.
also does anyone know the characteristics of a jig or whatever as when i play a piece i cant work out the key or time signature.
so......does anyone have any tips for composing tunes
all the best
andy
# Posted on January 14th 2003 by briggfoot
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
OOOOOooooooooooooo! Goooooooood post, Andy! I'll be sure to follow it.
Brother Steve's Whistle site has good information on jig styling. I think you'll find it helpful when planning your piece and fine-tuning it once you have a basic tune in place:
http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/tricky.html
If I understand you correctly, you have difficulty notating what you create and play? There are softwares that will notate from a recording on your computer, but they aren't perfect. You can do it yourself as well, but it's a slow process. I have this saved in my goodie bag...maybe it will help?
How to transcribe a piece yourself:
http://www.seventhstring.demon.co.uk/xscribe/introxsc.html
One of my whistle book has some basic information on the structure of the various irish tune types. It's "Learn to Play the Irish Whistle" by L. E. McCullough. Using that as a guide, I was able to see that most tunes are made of parts that are repeated. It helps me when learning a tune to recognize and isolate the parts. I would think this would help in writing tunes?
Let us know how it goes!
# Posted on January 14th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
You've set yourself no easy task, Andy, and yet once you learn how to compose music--and write it down in--you'll enjoy how easy and rewarding it can become.
A jig is a good start. Here are some basic guidelines for writing a simple Irish-style jig.
It's in 6/8 time, which means you need six eighth notes (or the equivalent, such as a quarter note and 4 eighth notes).
Most Irish jigs come in two parts. You can think of them as the first half and the second half. Or Part A and Part B (this way, you can always add on a Part C or D).
Each part should be 8 measures (or bars) long. So Part A will look like this:
|123 123|123 123|123 123|123 123|
|123 123|123 123|123 123|123 1 3|
Notice I left out a beat in the last measure. That's because it sounds good to hold the note you end on. Part B would look pretty much the same.
Of course, you don't have to use 6 eighth notes for every bar. Lots of jigs (notably "single jigs") use a fair amount of quarter notes. It might look like this (the quarter notes have a space after them):
|123 1 3|123 123|1 3 1 3|123 123| etc...
Now onto the actual notes. First pick a starting note. Lots of Irish jigs are in the keys of D or G...let's do G major just for an example. I don't have to start on G just because I'm in G major, so I'm going to try B and see where it takes me.
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
K: Gmaj
|BAG ABc|
Okay, there's a start. Six eighth notes, pretty much just noodling around in a G major scale. That "ABc" part makes me want to go higher in pitch, so:
|BAG ABc|BdB gfe|
Now I've got a whole "phrase," the real building block of a tune. I can probably use that same phrase again in--it's common in Irish tunes to repeat phrases like this. But now I want to break up this string of eighth notes, and I want to create a sense of anticipation, so I need to get out of the general G major noise I'm making so far and come up with something that would sound good with a C or D chord, say.
BAG ABc|BdB gfe|d3 dcB|cBc A2...
Okay, now I can hear the tune shaping up. I've linked two phrases together, each one is two measures long, so they create a "structure" for the tune. I want to keep this tune fairly simple, so I'll do the expected thing...repeat the first phrase:
|BAG ABc|BdB gfe|d3 dcB|cBc A2 c|
|BAG ABc|BdB gfe|
And now I need an ending for the fist half of the tune. I want to "resolve" to G, and there's a zillion ways to do it. Let's try:
|dcB cBA|BAF G2..
Well, it works, but it's not very imaginative. How about:
|d2 B cBA|
and now what?
|d2 B cBA|DEF G2....
That's more like it! I like the pounce onto the d2, and the next note B becomes a pick up note to swing onto the cBA part, and the low growly DEF are a nice surprise after all the higher pitched phrases. And it lands me back on G, where I want to be. So the first half (Part A) now looks like this:
|:BAG ABc|BdB gfe|d3 dcB|cBc A2 c|
|BAG ABc|BdB gfe|d2 B cBA|DEF G2 A:|
Notice that I added an A at the end of the last measure...this let's me jump back into the BAG at the start of the tune. I also put in the repeat symbols, reminding myself to play this part twice before going to the next part of the tune.
Now you just keep going...follow the melody where it leads you. Of course, you need to write your own Part A first....
Hope this helps. And if it raises more questions than it answers, fire away. I'll check in again later today.
# Posted on January 14th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
Hey.
I empathise. Damned GCSE coursework
Why not just let it turn into another piece?
I find that thinking too much about it stifles it, in a non-arty-pretentious way =) Just keep playing, after a bit something'll stick.... or you'll scream and chuck instrument A out of window... Let's all hope for the former...
~Cait
# Posted on January 14th 2003 by Caitriona
Meant to say. Write the tune first, without setting yourself too much of a specification...
Then look for t'other tunes based on *your* composition.
- Queen of not-very-constructive comments =)
# Posted on January 14th 2003 by Caitriona
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
Cait, that's usually how I do it too. I assumed Andy was looking for a more structured approach, just as a way to get started. But then I don't even know what GCSE stands for....
Most tunes either just fall into my lap basically whole, or they creep out of mindless noodling. But sometimes it's fun to set up a few constraints and see how creative you can be to shape a tune around them. Like, it's relatively easy to come up with an original sequence of otherwise random notes. But what happens when you try to find a new, interesting way to get from c natural to a in 4/4, D mix, in one measure (4 beats)?
Heh, reminds me of creative writing classes where the teach would ask for a sonnet about the Rotor Rooter man....
# Posted on January 14th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
A great technical description from Will as usual. Now for something different.
Inspiration comes to us at different times, places and circumstances. Keep a tape recorder handy especially in the car. If the tunes you start to compose begin to cycle back to a familiar tune of a different genre or even the Irish genre then get away from them. Listen to a country station if you don't listen to it normally. A spanish language station, anything that won't lead your brain into a preprogrammed path. Sometimes a series of of 3,4,6,8 - whatever notes might catch you. Turn off the radio and let your brain fly into the music. Use the recorder if you get stuck. By the time I'm done - the first notes I heard from the radio my be gone but I have a tune. I try it out on my friends to see if it's worthy.
I have written and thought out many melodies. They were pleasing enough but they failed to inspire me for very long. One of our members suggested that I should run these tunes by some of the session members. Let them take a stab at the tune and see if they can tweak it here and there. I'll try that next time I plan to get inspired.
Have great fun Andy and trust yourself!
Mark
# Posted on January 14th 2003 by Mark Cordova
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
GCSE = General Certificate of Secondary Education. A qualification school children take in the UK at the ages of 15/16. Most take GCSE in 10 or more subjects. If reasonably successful they can stay on to 18 and take Advanced Level in 3 subjects (usually), good grades in which are required for entrance to university.
trevor
# Posted on January 14th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
Will - I'm guessing yours was the more helpful. I'm not so good at structure or anything of direct use =)
Mark - I get the same thing. I can turn out a tune, but I'll bore of it easily far more than a *random* tune. It seems kind of insipid.
So then I try so hard to create *the perfect tune* each time, it doesn't work... If anything, sounds worse.
# Posted on January 15th 2003 by Caitriona
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
I'd like to hear what Andy comes up with. I was just trying to give him a breakdown of the elements that go into a jig, from the composer's point of view. It's not how I come up with tunes...I'm much less structured. Usually some little phrase pops into my head and then the rest unfolds like it's the fiddle talking to me. But there are certain sideboards you have to deal with if you want the tune to sound Irish or traditional or whatever.
I think the combination of all our advice should steer Andy in a useful direction.....
# Posted on January 15th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
Hehe... Will, I just played your tune. Very nice. =)
~Cait
# Posted on January 15th 2003 by Caitriona
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
....welll, half a tune anyway. *grin*
# Posted on January 15th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
Might be fun to try building "round robin" tunes. You post a part and a name suggestion. Others add on, tweak, twist and change...and suggest a name as it goes. See what we end up with. Hmmm, hoping it wouldn't be "It takes a village to raise a child; it takes a discussion board to write a bad tune with a weird name."
Oh, I'm not calling what you created thus far bad, Will. I haven't even played it!
# Posted on January 15th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
....a game of musical consequences. But each person would have to compose the next phrase blind, or rather, deaf - that is to say, not having heard the foregoing phrases. Of course, it would end up sounding like an old horned sheep with the body of a yellow cow, peacock's feathers and a swallow's tail.
# Posted on January 16th 2003 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
hello everyone!
sorry i am abit slow getting round to replying. i have been really busy with bloody coursework the past few days, all the teachers have suddenly chucked it at us all at once.
thanks very much for your replies, i have read them through but am on the way out to a session, i will read them through again tomorrow evening. thanks Will for the technical details and that, i am abit confused by key signatures, i understand what a D chord is but im not sure what other chords should be in a piece in this key. what did you mean when you said about "resolving the piece?" is it when you end it in a key that sounds natural kinda thing?
thanks once again
andy
# Posted on January 16th 2003 by briggfoot
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
Yes, Andy, "resolve" in this sense means that satisfied feeling you get when a tune ends (or resolves) on the "right" note or chord. The notes just before it should give a feeling of anticipation or even suspense, and then the "resolve" brings it to a close. Think of singing "Ahhhhh....men" in church, or "...in days of auld lang (that's the suspense) syne (that's the resolve)."
# Posted on January 16th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
"Resolve" isn't quite the word I'd use at SOME sessions..."relief" that I survived the tune maybe?
--Stace
# Posted on January 17th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
Andy, if you want someone to check it as coursework then send it to me somehow when you've finished it and I'll do that. I teach GCSE music as well as playing the fiddle. Just get something down either on paper or as a recording and then we can improve it.
Dan (danhands@ntlworld.com)
# Posted on January 19th 2003 by danhands
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
hi Dan, im still working on it. its getting close now. everyone else in my group has got alot done and i still havent got a note down. i do know i am going to do a jig,
i seem to lack any imagination in composition, everytune i think of turns into tune i already can play. i have a double session of music tommorow and im gonna start have a GOOD read through all of these posts
all the best
andy
# Posted on January 20th 2003 by briggfoot
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
Perhaps if you keep ending up in a known tune, take out every other note or use only the beginning beats of each measure and compress into the beginnings of something original to work with?
# Posted on January 20th 2003 by katiebythegate
Re: GCSE composition help!!!
When studying composition it helps to look at the rise and fall of the tune. If you look at many of the tunes printed in O'Neill, say, you'll see that the A part is often in the lower octave and the B part, by contrast, is a lot higher. If the A part starts with a rising series of notes it's a nice contrast to have the B part start high and then fall. And notice the way in which a bar, or two bars, is often repeated with slight variation, and how a two-bar phrase often "asks a question" which is "answered" by the next two-bar phrase.
trevor
# Posted on January 20th 2003 by Trevor Jennings