I'm looking to purchase several picups for fiddles for gig use, for a band whose lineup changes all the time so they have to be very easy to change (otherwise I'd get fishmans). I've tried the headway band pickups which wrap around fiddles, but they seem to be too quiet. I'm also not happy with the quality of the microvox swan neck mics....my internet searchs haven't shown much else, so any ideas?
At the moment we use £20 transducers which are poor sound quality, and more importantly it's not that much fun sticking blue tac to the bring to keep them on....
I've been down the same path as you.
Microvox quality was awful. Headway wasn't too bad but because I use Tim Phillips fiddle with no corners, it tended to slide.
Wasn't that impressed with Fishman either.
I now use a Tim Phillips electro-acoustic fiddle and sometimes a Yamaha electric fiddle (which gives me in-ear monitoring as well.
The other problem with microphone pick ups was feed back - as I stand next to a melodeon player with external microphones plus microphones on the drum kit at bigger venues
Try "Shadow" Pickups, they are quite good but possibly quite expensive. I have one for my double bass and am now trying (in vain) to remember wether they are only for double basses... i'm pretty sure they're not.
I agree with you about Fishman, my friend first bought one for her fiddle but it gave awful feed back...now shes got a shadow i think!
anyway, try this http://www.shadow-electronics.com/start.html
hope it helps! good luck!
There is the Barcus-Berry clamp-on piezo. It needs a preamp. The B.-B. preamp model is OK, but it's anything else but sturdily built. Jack to instrument is RCA. Jack's not fixed / screwed to the housing and internally soldered directly onto the PCB (printed circuit board – the plate inside on which all the coloured candies are mounted) – disaster preprogrammed. The transducer is not bad – but tends to feedback at high volume (rock / metal band).
There is the Schertler Stat-V. This one is OK, but has its price. Needs a preamp, too. The Headway products are nice – soundwise I like the piezo-bridge better than The Band. — But you`re looking for a replaceable system, don't you? I don't like the Shadows at all – screech, screech. Fishman: with preamp.
If staff is changing: better buy step by step good electric or semiacoustic instruments or electrify traditional instruments. It will pay. If you're looking for a system that doesn't influence the acoustic sound of a trad. instrument and doesn't have feedback problems – have a look at: http://www.uli-boesking.de/rebo/
To achieve a reliable solution both for your sound and physical convenience you need to consider a bespoke instrument. The pick up is just one part of the system and in itself can not be the solution.
I too have tried all kinds of pick ups and the one that I have stuck with for the past two years - and the best performing pick up in my opinion is the L R Baggs violin bridge/pick up. It is expensive and has to be fitted properly as it is built in to a good quality bridge. The advantage is that it is has superb quality - never feeds back and doesn't interfere with your fiddle when playing acoustically. I use a Tim Phillips Infidel fiddle with the pick up. The LR Baggs comes with a corner block to take the 1/4" jack. Well worth the investment.
I found both the Barcus Berry and L R Baggs integral bridges to be almost identical in performance, I used both on the same fiddle for 10 and 5 years respectively, I was very satisfied.
Then I tried the Ithaca Violect Bridge (ISI) and it outperformed both on the higher register by a long way. Much more balanced harmonics, particularly when double stopping.
Very little else comes close to Baggs & Barcus Berry..
....... nothing comes close to ISI.
However, please, please use a high impedance buffer when using any piezo transducer. Ideally use a matched design. Dont be told that it is not required - it is.
All Sonic Violins use the ISI bridge with a bespoke integral impedance matched preamp.
I've also tried a lot of different pickups/mics/preamps. Here are the ones I've actually tried & own:
Schatten VVM: Currently my favorite Piezo. Sticks to your bridge w/putty. Sounds pretty good! Does damp acoustic sound a bit, but easy to remove.
Fishman V-200: not that great, really awful if you plug it into a low-impedance input (< 1megohm). Piezo preamp highly recommended. Easy to remove.
Audio Technica Pro35 (or ATM35): clip on condenser mike. I clip it to the edge of the chinrest and point it at the area behind the bridge (not at the f-hole!! bad feedback). This is very good sounding mic -- requires phantom power from the mixer or carry your own adapter.
Crown GLM100 (omni) or GLM200(hyper-cardiod): this is a tiny quarter-inch square (6.5mm for our metric friends) condenser. It comes with a clip that allows it to point at the fiddle top (again, the area behind the bridge). Really the best alternative to a good mic on a stand. NOTE: you must get used to pointing your head slightly off to the right. If you point your nose at the scroll your breath will make horrendous noise! Also requires phantom power. Tim Britton turned me on to these mics and they are really great.
Shadow pickup: Sorry, I bought one and wasn't that impressed.
L.R.Baggs Para-acoustic DI: If you use a Piezo, this is a must. Gives EQ, proper input impedance for a piezo pickup and nicest of all, an effects input. The effects loop allows you to put sound processing and/or an inline tuner like the Boss TU-2. Just stomp on the box, and you are cut off from the house PA while you tune!
Zeta Violin retro-fit Kit: Zeta doesn't make these anymore. While it sound much better than your average Piezo pickup, it makes the fiddle unusable as a purely acoustic instrument. A real pain to change to (not only bridge, but tailpiece). Only use on a fiddle that's going to use strictly amplified. Mine is sitting unused in a box.
I've got some other odd ones, but that's enough for now.
Just a word on Piezos and pre-amps. Sometimes I hear folks either confused or suspicious about this topic.
Piezos convert mechanical vibration into an electrical signals and don't put out too much electrical power. If the piezo is connected to an input that places too much of a load on it, the resulting sound will be thin and harsh.
So you want a device with an input that doesn't put much of a load on the piezo's output power.
The load caused by an input is related to it's impedance. Piezos are happiest when driving an input with an impedance of 1 Meg-ohm or greater. This is what is meant by high-impedance input.
Unfortunately, most 1/4" input devices -- amplifiers, mixers, pre--amps and D.I. boxes have relatively low input impedances in the 600 to 10k ohms range. Again, this is bad news for your pickup.
Check the device you're plugging into -- chances are unless it is specifically made to handle piezos, the sound is going to be much worse than it has to be.
Lot's of acoustic amplifiers are now made with piezo-compatible inputs and acoustic DIs like the L.R. Baggs, Fishman and Ultrasound are excellent.
Even Behringer, a German maker of cheap gear, makes an acoustic DI now that can be had for about $30. It's the ADI21 and while I haven't tried it am sure it would be vastly better than plugging straight into a low-impedance device (it claims 4.7 Meg-ohm input impedance) http://www.behringer.com/ADI21/index.cfm?lang=ENG
One last thing -- generally, the more material in the crystal itself, the more power it produces, so pickups do vary in how well they can tolerate driving a heavy load impedance. Piezos like the Fishman don't have much material, while triple-pickup units like the K&K violinissimo have much more.
Many of these manufacturers will say "no preamp needed" -- it may be true they will be better than smaller pickups, you will still be getting the best sound possible by plugging into some type of piezo friendly/high-impedance device.
Fiddle Pickups
Fiddle Pickups
I wonder if anyone here can help.
I'm looking to purchase several picups for fiddles for gig use, for a band whose lineup changes all the time so they have to be very easy to change (otherwise I'd get fishmans). I've tried the headway band pickups which wrap around fiddles, but they seem to be too quiet. I'm also not happy with the quality of the microvox swan neck mics....my internet searchs haven't shown much else, so any ideas?
At the moment we use £20 transducers which are poor sound quality, and more importantly it's not that much fun sticking blue tac to the bring to keep them on....
# Posted on January 11th 2007 by barrysmith90
Re: Fiddle Pickups
I've been down the same path as you.
Microvox quality was awful. Headway wasn't too bad but because I use Tim Phillips fiddle with no corners, it tended to slide.
Wasn't that impressed with Fishman either.
I now use a Tim Phillips electro-acoustic fiddle and sometimes a Yamaha electric fiddle (which gives me in-ear monitoring as well.
The other problem with microphone pick ups was feed back - as I stand next to a melodeon player with external microphones plus microphones on the drum kit at bigger venues
# Posted on January 11th 2007 by Tarrantella
Re: Fiddle Pickups
Take a look at : info@riml.biz Quick and easy to mount &
dismount (as the art mistress said ).
# Posted on January 11th 2007 by duffgen
Re: Fiddle Pickups
Try "Shadow" Pickups, they are quite good but possibly quite expensive. I have one for my double bass and am now trying (in vain) to remember wether they are only for double basses... i'm pretty sure they're not.
I agree with you about Fishman, my friend first bought one for her fiddle but it gave awful feed back...now shes got a shadow i think!
anyway, try this
http://www.shadow-electronics.com/start.html
hope it helps! good luck!
# Posted on January 11th 2007 by MeddlingMinstrel
Re: Fiddle Pickups
There is the Barcus-Berry clamp-on piezo. It needs a preamp. The B.-B. preamp model is OK, but it's anything else but sturdily built. Jack to instrument is RCA. Jack's not fixed / screwed to the housing and internally soldered directly onto the PCB (printed circuit board – the plate inside on which all the coloured candies are mounted) – disaster preprogrammed. The transducer is not bad – but tends to feedback at high volume (rock / metal band).
There is the Schertler Stat-V. This one is OK, but has its price. Needs a preamp, too. The Headway products are nice – soundwise I like the piezo-bridge better than The Band. — But you`re looking for a replaceable system, don't you? I don't like the Shadows at all – screech, screech. Fishman: with preamp.
If staff is changing: better buy step by step good electric or semiacoustic instruments or electrify traditional instruments. It will pay. If you're looking for a system that doesn't influence the acoustic sound of a trad. instrument and doesn't have feedback problems – have a look at:
http://www.uli-boesking.de/rebo/
# Posted on January 11th 2007 by UlisesDos
Re: Fiddle Pickups
Cheers for all your advice - I'll look into them!
# Posted on January 12th 2007 by barrysmith90
Re: Fiddle Pickups
http://www.pick-uptheworld.com/pickups.htm no first hand experience but worth a look.
# Posted on January 12th 2007 by Dont
Re: Fiddle Pickups
To achieve a reliable solution both for your sound and physical convenience you need to consider a bespoke instrument. The pick up is just one part of the system and in itself can not be the solution.
http://www,sonicviolins.co.uk
...the solution for electro acoustic violins.
# Posted on January 12th 2007 by Titch {=/=}===++
Re: Fiddle Pickups
OR....
http://www.sonicviolins.co.uk
# Posted on January 12th 2007 by Titch {=/=}===++
Re: Fiddle Pickups
I too have tried all kinds of pick ups and the one that I have stuck with for the past two years - and the best performing pick up in my opinion is the L R Baggs violin bridge/pick up. It is expensive and has to be fitted properly as it is built in to a good quality bridge. The advantage is that it is has superb quality - never feeds back and doesn't interfere with your fiddle when playing acoustically. I use a Tim Phillips Infidel fiddle with the pick up. The LR Baggs comes with a corner block to take the 1/4" jack. Well worth the investment.
# Posted on January 12th 2007 by acetrace
Re: Fiddle Pickups
I found both the Barcus Berry and L R Baggs integral bridges to be almost identical in performance, I used both on the same fiddle for 10 and 5 years respectively, I was very satisfied.
Then I tried the Ithaca Violect Bridge (ISI) and it outperformed both on the higher register by a long way. Much more balanced harmonics, particularly when double stopping.
Very little else comes close to Baggs & Barcus Berry..
....... nothing comes close to ISI.
However, please, please use a high impedance buffer when using any piezo transducer. Ideally use a matched design. Dont be told that it is not required - it is.
All Sonic Violins use the ISI bridge with a bespoke integral impedance matched preamp.
# Posted on January 12th 2007 by Titch {=/=}===++
Re: Fiddle Pickups
I've also tried a lot of different pickups/mics/preamps. Here are the ones I've actually tried & own:
Schatten VVM: Currently my favorite Piezo. Sticks to your bridge w/putty. Sounds pretty good! Does damp acoustic sound a bit, but easy to remove.
Fishman V-200: not that great, really awful if you plug it into a low-impedance input (< 1megohm). Piezo preamp highly recommended. Easy to remove.
Audio Technica Pro35 (or ATM35): clip on condenser mike. I clip it to the edge of the chinrest and point it at the area behind the bridge (not at the f-hole!! bad feedback). This is very good sounding mic -- requires phantom power from the mixer or carry your own adapter.
Crown GLM100 (omni) or GLM200(hyper-cardiod): this is a tiny quarter-inch square (6.5mm for our metric friends) condenser. It comes with a clip that allows it to point at the fiddle top (again, the area behind the bridge). Really the best alternative to a good mic on a stand. NOTE: you must get used to pointing your head slightly off to the right. If you point your nose at the scroll your breath will make horrendous noise! Also requires phantom power. Tim Britton turned me on to these mics and they are really great.
Shadow pickup: Sorry, I bought one and wasn't that impressed.
L.R.Baggs Para-acoustic DI: If you use a Piezo, this is a must. Gives EQ, proper input impedance for a piezo pickup and nicest of all, an effects input. The effects loop allows you to put sound processing and/or an inline tuner like the Boss TU-2. Just stomp on the box, and you are cut off from the house PA while you tune!
Zeta Violin retro-fit Kit: Zeta doesn't make these anymore. While it sound much better than your average Piezo pickup, it makes the fiddle unusable as a purely acoustic instrument. A real pain to change to (not only bridge, but tailpiece). Only use on a fiddle that's going to use strictly amplified. Mine is sitting unused in a box.
I've got some other odd ones, but that's enough for now.
Rich
# Posted on April 23rd 2007 by Rich
Re: Fiddle Pickups
Just a word on Piezos and pre-amps. Sometimes I hear folks either confused or suspicious about this topic.
Piezos convert mechanical vibration into an electrical signals and don't put out too much electrical power. If the piezo is connected to an input that places too much of a load on it, the resulting sound will be thin and harsh.
So you want a device with an input that doesn't put much of a load on the piezo's output power.
The load caused by an input is related to it's impedance. Piezos are happiest when driving an input with an impedance of 1 Meg-ohm or greater. This is what is meant by high-impedance input.
Unfortunately, most 1/4" input devices -- amplifiers, mixers, pre--amps and D.I. boxes have relatively low input impedances in the 600 to 10k ohms range. Again, this is bad news for your pickup.
Check the device you're plugging into -- chances are unless it is specifically made to handle piezos, the sound is going to be much worse than it has to be.
Lot's of acoustic amplifiers are now made with piezo-compatible inputs and acoustic DIs like the L.R. Baggs, Fishman and Ultrasound are excellent.
Even Behringer, a German maker of cheap gear, makes an acoustic DI now that can be had for about $30. It's the ADI21 and while I haven't tried it am sure it would be vastly better than plugging straight into a low-impedance device (it claims 4.7 Meg-ohm input impedance) http://www.behringer.com/ADI21/index.cfm?lang=ENG
One last thing -- generally, the more material in the crystal itself, the more power it produces, so pickups do vary in how well they can tolerate driving a heavy load impedance. Piezos like the Fishman don't have much material, while triple-pickup units like the K&K violinissimo have much more.
Many of these manufacturers will say "no preamp needed" -- it may be true they will be better than smaller pickups, you will still be getting the best sound possible by plugging into some type of piezo friendly/high-impedance device.
HTH,
Rich (fiddler and electrical engineer/geek ;^)
# Posted on April 23rd 2007 by Rich
Re: Fiddle Pickups
I should say that I used the Shadow SH3001 and didn't like it... looks like they have lots more models nowadays.
# Posted on April 24th 2007 by Rich