I'm want to buy a fiddle for my partner, and am wondering if anybody could recommend a maker in Ireland. What are the best types and what do i need to avoid.
I'd prefer to buy a good make rather than waste money on a cheap one which will need to be changed at some stage anyway.
Suggestions welcome
Thanks
Does your partner already play? Buying a fiddle is a pretty personal decision. If your partner doesn't play, then find a fiddle playing friend to help you -- that's usually best. Personally, I'd try for what classical players would consider a decent intermediate student fiddle, if s/he doesn't play already. Buying a fiddle from a good maker can get pretty cost-prohibitive, too. What price range were you thinking of?
Zina
My partner played the fiddle when she was younger and wants to take it up again. Price range?- i paid about 800 pounds for my mandolin, and was thinking of paying around the same for the fiddle. Would 800 pounds (say $1000) buy a good standard fiddle.
I been told that Skylark make good instruments but i really have no idea.
David Alcock
Thanks for the link/advice.
I agree with Zina, Good handmade fiddles are really expensive, so a intermediate/good student fiddle would be a good choice. if you want a vintage or antique fiddle it's probably better to wait (if she can't already play, if you do buy a good vintage fiddle you have to know what to look for and this list can be quite extensive) However if you go to a good music shop and ask for an int/good student fiddle (costing less than
With fiddles expensive doesn't always mean good (although it usually does) and inexpensive doesn't always mean poor. Different fiddles have different sounds. Some have a bright sound that many fiddlers prefer, and some have a more mellow sound that violin players prefer.
Old fiddles are often better sounding than brand new fiddles, and appearances have nothing to do with how they sound. I played a very ugly, beat up fiddle a few weeks ago in a shop that was sounded absolutely beautiful (too bad it was selling for $24,000). My fiddle is pretty beat up, but to me is has a better tone than many more expensive fiddles I've seen.
I think that if you get her involved in the buying process, not only will she get a violin that she likes, but I think it will make her cherish it (and you) more and spend more time with it later on.
If you've got 800 pounds to spend, remember that some of that has got to go towards a good bow and a solid case.
Good points all. Celtic, yer a treasure. Let's see, now:
1) No, it needn't cost an arm and a leg. What's important is that you/she love the feel and sound and tenor of it, which is why either she or an experienced fiddler should help you choose one for her. If you want it to be a surprise, you might check to see if the maker will allow you to give her a fiddle for the gift and then allow her to bring it back and choose her "real" one. Most makers will allow a fiddler to try a fiddle (new or used) out for a couple of days to see how it plays over a short period of time. That might not be true of a pawn shop (and I've bought any amount of instruments from pawn shops) or other music store, but they can only say no, right?
There's a lot that goes into finding the right fiddle and it can get quite technical. However, if she really loves it, it's probably fine. If you buy it from a reputable shop or maker, they'll usually be good at helping with any problems with the instrument later.
2) Troy is absolutely right, the bow is almost more important than the fiddle. You can spend quite a bit on a good bow. However, that's probably something you can buy her later once she's got her touch back, as the bow is even more a personal choice than the fiddle itself. We've quite a lot of thread in the archive about choosing a bow.
3) If you buy a used fiddle, remember to save some cash for a good setup first thing by a tech you trust and for a good set of strings as well as all the other stuff (shoulder rest if she uses one, good grade rosin (if it costs less than $2, it's probably not good grade rosin), maybe peg dope if the pegs stick, maybe a practise mute, case, whatever). If you buy a used bow, you might also want to get the bow rehaired. A maker will probably have set up one of his/her own fiddles already, but inquire to make sure that there's no extra charge for that. (A "setup", btw, more or less means that new strings are put on, the tech checks the physical body of the fiddle and parts thereof, replaces or repairs anything needing it, carves and installs a new bridge, and resets the soundpost to get the best possible sound out of the fiddle with that bridge and strings. Setups should usually be done about once a year or more if you have frequent weather changes -- some techs recommend one in the spring and one in the fall.)
4) Re: the case -- Sean Smyth looked at my beat up featherlight case (my sister in law gave it to me as a gift to take my fiddle to Ireland with me two years ago) that I've been thinking I need to trade in for a better case, poked at it and told everyone in the workshop that a light, small case like this that still protected the instrument was the only way to go, forget the enormous cases you can't get on a plane. Of course, he flies with his instrument a lot, so that may not count for your partner. I will say that the smaller the case, the easier to carry the thing (and find a place to stow it) to sessions.
Really protective cases come with features like suspension shock systems for the fiddle, hard outsides and soft insides, hygrometers, and string cases. They should fit the correct size fiddle like a glove. (If she's normal adult sized, she probably plays a 4/4 fiddle.)
I bought my fiddle at a pawn shop. It's a good intermediate student fiddle and it cost me about USD385. Dale Morris told me last year that he thought it was an excellent little fiddle, good measurements, great sound. I just helped a friend buy a fiddle for his wife and we managed one just a little better or the same level as mine for $300, at the same pawn shop.
Older fiddles often have more mellowed wood and sound, but don't necessarily count on an old fiddle being better than a new one. Dale had a few words to say about some of the fiddles he's asked to work on, some of them quite old. Some of the new Chinese fiddles are very well made, if you choose a good brand.
Thanks all,
I'm glad i play the mandolin and not the fiddle. It seems so complex, rosin,bows, setting up, etc. Here's to simple strings and plectrums.
Anyway thanks for the great advice, i suppose i better let her in on the surprise before-hand.
God bless
Woah. Just as I was about to scroll down and add my piece, I read the last paragraph of Zina's comment.
I just bought my fiddle this summer, it is indeed a new Chinese. Bought spontaneously an hour before I caught the train home from Edinburgh festival. I'm not the sort of person to blow that kind of money flippantly, I think it just felt right.
I think it's very important to have the recipient have a hand in the choosing. If she hasn't played for a while, it would be useful to have someone who knows a bit more about fiddles aswell, but it really depends on personal preference.
Don't be put off by what you've heard. If I'd known mine was Chinese first of all, I might have thought differently about it. If she likes it that's the most important thing - she has to play it! =)
Many years ago the London Symphony Orchestra toured China. I believe it was among the first, if not the first, of the western orchestras to do this. What was notable was the large number of detailed photos the Chinese took of the orchestra's violins, violas and cellos, especially the superb early Italian instruments used by several players. Since then, the Chinese violin making industry has really taken off, the instruments they make being modelled closely on those photographed. People tell me that many Chinese instruments are fine to play, once they've been set up properly - but that advice applies to any bought instrument.
Advice once given to me about buying a professional soloist quality modern violin (or cello) is to look for an established maker with a high reputation who is approaching the end of his career. If he has the right instrument for you, then buy it! For if you wait until his instruments are no longer being made then you can be sure that the price will rocket. A bit like buying a painting by an established modern artist I suppose.
Another route, which was successfully adopted by my cello teacher many years ago (it's how he got me my present cello), is to go to auctions where you can often buy for a very modest amount some beat-up and damaged old instruments which can then be repaired and refurbished and often turned back into fine instruments, as happened in the case of my cello. But this of course presupposes the knowledge and skill to identify such gems amongst the dross of the auction room and either to have the craft skills to effect the necessary repairs and refurbishment or an arrangement with someone with those skills.
i bought one of the eastman violins (made in beijing) about a year ago, for around US $850. i've been very happy with it -- especially as its voice has developed as i've played it in -- and other players have liked it a lot. my fiddle teacher's comment was that i could have paid much more money & not gotten as good an instrument.
to be fair, i'm told that my violin is better than the average run of instruments from eastman, but it certainly is proof that some of the chinese fiddles are quite good.
Speaking of Chinese violins, Dale Morris sells those things for less than 300 dollars and they sound pretty darn good. In fact, he's been playing one of them at competitions lately (I think it's a 600 dollar model). Anyway, they're a heck of a lot better than my first (and even my second) fiddle and far better than any instruments you'd pick up for 2,000 dollars at a local music shop.
But, if you insist on spending money on a hand-made instrument then you'd have to look pretty hard to find a better maker than Larry Joiner who lives in Ft. Worth, Texas. His basic price is 5,000 dollars and he sells to some top names in the country/western genre. I don't know if he'll ship instruments for a trial period, but you could ask. His instruments sound a bit more 'violin' than 'fiddle' to me but he says he can build custom to your preference.
Please, post an email to me if you'd like some contact info.
As Eleyne mentioned, it is important to realise that a new instrument, or a refurbished instrument that hasn't been played for a long time, will take time to "play in", perhaps as long as a couple of years of regular playing. But this period of you and the instrument getting used to each other is always worth it with a good instrument.
I started out buying a factory made fiddle from China a couple of years ago, about $100. Left it lying around for two years, then started lessons last July. After 4 or 5 months I wanted a better sound so I started looking around. There were two fiddle dealers locally, one catering to the student trade with fiddles between $100 and $900. The other was a violin restorer who I'd heard did restoration for the Philadelphia Orchestra and sold instuments starting in the thousands. At first I was intimidated by that but then decided to at least ask his advice. When I went he had laid out 7 instruments to try, 6 new handmade in China, 1 secondhand. I tried them all and decided on the second hand fiddle. All 7 were between $1200 and $1500. The thing that sold me was his obvious interest in the fiddle after I bought it, and a guarantee that he would buy it back from me at at least the same price if I decided fiddle was not for me, or give me that much as value if I wanted to upgrade at some point in the future. I've had one incident with the instrument where I had to bring it back for a 15 minute adujustment and it was he who suggested that I bring it in, and did it at no charge.
All this is by way of saying that you might find it more cost effective in the long run to go with a better dealer and instrument. I don't think the resale value, the care and expertise would have been available in the other shop.
Trevor and Eleyne - exactly!
Some friends heard me play a week after I bought it, and then again about a week ago. They said the difference was amazing, and I'm not the most concientious of people as far as practicing goes!
Michael Shannon (Mick) of Ballina, Co. Mayo is a good bet. He made me a beauty. It was a bit pricy at €1950 but that included case, two qualtiy bows, and and it seems, free lifetime service.....
I can recommend Rab Cherry. He lives in Dublin (Raheny) and works at home (he doesn't have a shop unfortunately...) I bought a fiddle made by him one year ago and I'm fvery happy, it's very well made and has an open, loud, rich sound with a good reverb. He makes three models in different qualities for 2k, 4k and 6k.
Buying A Fiddle
Buying A Fiddle
I'm want to buy a fiddle for my partner, and am wondering if anybody could recommend a maker in Ireland. What are the best types and what do i need to avoid.
I'd prefer to buy a good make rather than waste money on a cheap one which will need to be changed at some stage anyway.
Suggestions welcome
Thanks
# Posted on January 4th 2003 by Celtic1234
Re: Buying A Fiddle
Does your partner already play? Buying a fiddle is a pretty personal decision. If your partner doesn't play, then find a fiddle playing friend to help you -- that's usually best. Personally, I'd try for what classical players would consider a decent intermediate student fiddle, if s/he doesn't play already. Buying a fiddle from a good maker can get pretty cost-prohibitive, too. What price range were you thinking of?
Zina
# Posted on January 4th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Buying A Fiddle
Zina
My partner played the fiddle when she was younger and wants to take it up again. Price range?- i paid about 800 pounds for my mandolin, and was thinking of paying around the same for the fiddle. Would 800 pounds (say $1000) buy a good standard fiddle.
I been told that Skylark make good instruments but i really have no idea.
David Alcock
Thanks for the link/advice.
# Posted on January 4th 2003 by Celtic1234
Re: Buying A Fiddle
I agree with Zina, Good handmade fiddles are really expensive, so a intermediate/good student fiddle would be a good choice. if you want a vintage or antique fiddle it's probably better to wait (if she can't already play, if you do buy a good vintage fiddle you have to know what to look for and this list can be quite extensive) However if you go to a good music shop and ask for an int/good student fiddle (costing less than
# Posted on January 4th 2003 by Dafydd Monks
Re: Buying A Fiddle
I think you should let her pick it out. Certain instruments just resonate with certain musicians. By the way, you're very generous.
# Posted on January 4th 2003 by carolsviolin
Re: Buying A Fiddle
With fiddles expensive doesn't always mean good (although it usually does) and inexpensive doesn't always mean poor. Different fiddles have different sounds. Some have a bright sound that many fiddlers prefer, and some have a more mellow sound that violin players prefer.
Old fiddles are often better sounding than brand new fiddles, and appearances have nothing to do with how they sound. I played a very ugly, beat up fiddle a few weeks ago in a shop that was sounded absolutely beautiful (too bad it was selling for $24,000). My fiddle is pretty beat up, but to me is has a better tone than many more expensive fiddles I've seen.
I think that if you get her involved in the buying process, not only will she get a violin that she likes, but I think it will make her cherish it (and you) more and spend more time with it later on.
If you've got 800 pounds to spend, remember that some of that has got to go towards a good bow and a solid case.
-Troy
# Posted on January 4th 2003 by RTP
Re: Buying A Fiddle
Good points all. Celtic, yer a treasure. Let's see, now:
1) No, it needn't cost an arm and a leg. What's important is that you/she love the feel and sound and tenor of it, which is why either she or an experienced fiddler should help you choose one for her. If you want it to be a surprise, you might check to see if the maker will allow you to give her a fiddle for the gift and then allow her to bring it back and choose her "real" one. Most makers will allow a fiddler to try a fiddle (new or used) out for a couple of days to see how it plays over a short period of time. That might not be true of a pawn shop (and I've bought any amount of instruments from pawn shops) or other music store, but they can only say no, right?
There's a lot that goes into finding the right fiddle and it can get quite technical. However, if she really loves it, it's probably fine. If you buy it from a reputable shop or maker, they'll usually be good at helping with any problems with the instrument later.
2) Troy is absolutely right, the bow is almost more important than the fiddle. You can spend quite a bit on a good bow. However, that's probably something you can buy her later once she's got her touch back, as the bow is even more a personal choice than the fiddle itself. We've quite a lot of thread in the archive about choosing a bow.
3) If you buy a used fiddle, remember to save some cash for a good setup first thing by a tech you trust and for a good set of strings as well as all the other stuff (shoulder rest if she uses one, good grade rosin (if it costs less than $2, it's probably not good grade rosin), maybe peg dope if the pegs stick, maybe a practise mute, case, whatever). If you buy a used bow, you might also want to get the bow rehaired. A maker will probably have set up one of his/her own fiddles already, but inquire to make sure that there's no extra charge for that. (A "setup", btw, more or less means that new strings are put on, the tech checks the physical body of the fiddle and parts thereof, replaces or repairs anything needing it, carves and installs a new bridge, and resets the soundpost to get the best possible sound out of the fiddle with that bridge and strings. Setups should usually be done about once a year or more if you have frequent weather changes -- some techs recommend one in the spring and one in the fall.)
4) Re: the case -- Sean Smyth looked at my beat up featherlight case (my sister in law gave it to me as a gift to take my fiddle to Ireland with me two years ago) that I've been thinking I need to trade in for a better case, poked at it and told everyone in the workshop that a light, small case like this that still protected the instrument was the only way to go, forget the enormous cases you can't get on a plane. Of course, he flies with his instrument a lot, so that may not count for your partner. I will say that the smaller the case, the easier to carry the thing (and find a place to stow it) to sessions.
Really protective cases come with features like suspension shock systems for the fiddle, hard outsides and soft insides, hygrometers, and string cases. They should fit the correct size fiddle like a glove. (If she's normal adult sized, she probably plays a 4/4 fiddle.)
I bought my fiddle at a pawn shop. It's a good intermediate student fiddle and it cost me about USD385. Dale Morris told me last year that he thought it was an excellent little fiddle, good measurements, great sound. I just helped a friend buy a fiddle for his wife and we managed one just a little better or the same level as mine for $300, at the same pawn shop.
Older fiddles often have more mellowed wood and sound, but don't necessarily count on an old fiddle being better than a new one. Dale had a few words to say about some of the fiddles he's asked to work on, some of them quite old. Some of the new Chinese fiddles are very well made, if you choose a good brand.
Hope something in all this helps you.
Zina
# Posted on January 4th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Buying A Fiddle
Thanks all,
I'm glad i play the mandolin and not the fiddle. It seems so complex, rosin,bows, setting up, etc. Here's to simple strings and plectrums.
Anyway thanks for the great advice, i suppose i better let her in on the surprise before-hand.
God bless
# Posted on January 4th 2003 by Celtic1234
Re: Buying A Fiddle
Woah. Just as I was about to scroll down and add my piece, I read the last paragraph of Zina's comment.
I just bought my fiddle this summer, it is indeed a new Chinese. Bought spontaneously an hour before I caught the train home from Edinburgh festival. I'm not the sort of person to blow that kind of money flippantly, I think it just felt right.
I think it's very important to have the recipient have a hand in the choosing. If she hasn't played for a while, it would be useful to have someone who knows a bit more about fiddles aswell, but it really depends on personal preference.
Don't be put off by what you've heard. If I'd known mine was Chinese first of all, I might have thought differently about it. If she likes it that's the most important thing - she has to play it! =)
# Posted on January 4th 2003 by Caitriona
Re: Buying A Fiddle
I forgot to add -
Try and play the fiddle before you look at the price. I tried a fiddle for
# Posted on January 4th 2003 by Caitriona
Re: Buying A Fiddle - Chinese violins
Many years ago the London Symphony Orchestra toured China. I believe it was among the first, if not the first, of the western orchestras to do this. What was notable was the large number of detailed photos the Chinese took of the orchestra's violins, violas and cellos, especially the superb early Italian instruments used by several players. Since then, the Chinese violin making industry has really taken off, the instruments they make being modelled closely on those photographed. People tell me that many Chinese instruments are fine to play, once they've been set up properly - but that advice applies to any bought instrument.
trevor
# Posted on January 5th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Buying A Fiddle
Advice once given to me about buying a professional soloist quality modern violin (or cello) is to look for an established maker with a high reputation who is approaching the end of his career. If he has the right instrument for you, then buy it! For if you wait until his instruments are no longer being made then you can be sure that the price will rocket. A bit like buying a painting by an established modern artist I suppose.
Another route, which was successfully adopted by my cello teacher many years ago (it's how he got me my present cello), is to go to auctions where you can often buy for a very modest amount some beat-up and damaged old instruments which can then be repaired and refurbished and often turned back into fine instruments, as happened in the case of my cello. But this of course presupposes the knowledge and skill to identify such gems amongst the dross of the auction room and either to have the craft skills to effect the necessary repairs and refurbishment or an arrangement with someone with those skills.
trevor
# Posted on January 5th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Buying A Fiddle
i bought one of the eastman violins (made in beijing) about a year ago, for around US $850. i've been very happy with it -- especially as its voice has developed as i've played it in -- and other players have liked it a lot. my fiddle teacher's comment was that i could have paid much more money & not gotten as good an instrument.
to be fair, i'm told that my violin is better than the average run of instruments from eastman, but it certainly is proof that some of the chinese fiddles are quite good.
sarah
# Posted on January 5th 2003 by sarahc
Re: Buying A Fiddle
Speaking of Chinese violins, Dale Morris sells those things for less than 300 dollars and they sound pretty darn good. In fact, he's been playing one of them at competitions lately (I think it's a 600 dollar model). Anyway, they're a heck of a lot better than my first (and even my second) fiddle and far better than any instruments you'd pick up for 2,000 dollars at a local music shop.
But, if you insist on spending money on a hand-made instrument then you'd have to look pretty hard to find a better maker than Larry Joiner who lives in Ft. Worth, Texas. His basic price is 5,000 dollars and he sells to some top names in the country/western genre. I don't know if he'll ship instruments for a trial period, but you could ask. His instruments sound a bit more 'violin' than 'fiddle' to me but he says he can build custom to your preference.
Please, post an email to me if you'd like some contact info.
# Posted on January 5th 2003 by Caoimghgin
Re: Buying A Fiddle
As Eleyne mentioned, it is important to realise that a new instrument, or a refurbished instrument that hasn't been played for a long time, will take time to "play in", perhaps as long as a couple of years of regular playing. But this period of you and the instrument getting used to each other is always worth it with a good instrument.
trevor
# Posted on January 5th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Buying A Fiddle
I started out buying a factory made fiddle from China a couple of years ago, about $100. Left it lying around for two years, then started lessons last July. After 4 or 5 months I wanted a better sound so I started looking around. There were two fiddle dealers locally, one catering to the student trade with fiddles between $100 and $900. The other was a violin restorer who I'd heard did restoration for the Philadelphia Orchestra and sold instuments starting in the thousands. At first I was intimidated by that but then decided to at least ask his advice. When I went he had laid out 7 instruments to try, 6 new handmade in China, 1 secondhand. I tried them all and decided on the second hand fiddle. All 7 were between $1200 and $1500. The thing that sold me was his obvious interest in the fiddle after I bought it, and a guarantee that he would buy it back from me at at least the same price if I decided fiddle was not for me, or give me that much as value if I wanted to upgrade at some point in the future. I've had one incident with the instrument where I had to bring it back for a 15 minute adujustment and it was he who suggested that I bring it in, and did it at no charge.
All this is by way of saying that you might find it more cost effective in the long run to go with a better dealer and instrument. I don't think the resale value, the care and expertise would have been available in the other shop.
Best of luck to you. A wonderful gift!
# Posted on January 5th 2003 by bflan59
Re: Buying A Fiddle
Trevor and Eleyne - exactly!
Some friends heard me play a week after I bought it, and then again about a week ago. They said the difference was amazing, and I'm not the most concientious of people as far as practicing goes!
Please take a look a this site;
http://www.timsviolins.co.uk/
My friend's dad makes the most beautiful fiddles, it was my first choice before I found my one. I think Eliza Carthy has one, among others.
# Posted on January 6th 2003 by Caitriona
Re: Buying A Fiddle
Michael Shannon (Mick) of Ballina, Co. Mayo is a good bet. He made me a beauty. It was a bit pricy at €1950 but that included case, two qualtiy bows, and and it seems, free lifetime service.....
Jim
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by hoopoe
Re: Buying A Fiddle
Sounds like a bargain for a handmade fiddle with two good bows.
# Posted on July 7th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Buying A Fiddle
I can recommend Rab Cherry. He lives in Dublin (Raheny) and works at home (he doesn't have a shop unfortunately...) I bought a fiddle made by him one year ago and I'm fvery happy, it's very well made and has an open, loud, rich sound with a good reverb. He makes three models in different qualities for 2k, 4k and 6k.
# Posted on November 16th 2009 by edael