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Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I know there's a lot going on in other threads, but, whilst playing a few tunes just now, I found myself thinking about what I'm actually putting into the music and what I'd like to put in.
I'd like to think I'm an OK fiddle player - I have no YouTube videos to point you to or anything like that, so you'll have to take my word for it. I'm OK.
And there are some things I do which I'm really quite proud of - my rolls on first finger, for instance, using the third finger hammered on and then not *quite* releasing the first finger, which makes an extra 'bonus' note appear from nowhere and, I fondly think, sounds a bit like a pipe ornament.
But there are other things I hear other players do - not necessarily on fiddle - that I wish I could do too. Certain trebles, some of that magical variation that goes far afield from the melody and yet STILL stays true to the tune, a sweetness of tone that I can get, but sometimes forget to ... and others.
So, what's everyone else's pet trick, and what's your most wanted skill you don't yet have?
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Good discussion topic.
A while back I became quite conscious of my inability to do bowed triplets and have them sound snappy and precise. So, I spent about a half hour or so practicing them every day for a few weeks. They are now quite nice and snappyand I get the occasional compliment from others, so I guess the practice payed off.
I too wish I could come up with great variations on the fly, but I think thats something that only comes after years of playing the tunesand playing with them. Working towards that, I find that listening to a few different players play a tune and figure out the finering for each of their variations gives me a good idea of what kind of room there is in the melody. Hopefully it will come more naturally in the future.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Fancy stuff I can do.. Well, on the fiddle, I'm quite fond of my rolls [especially those first finger rolls on the G] SEXXXXXY!!! That's about it.. Variations are sort of difficult for me when it comes to fiddle, but I feel much more at home with the whistle when it comes to that.
Fancy stuff I'd like to do? Ah. Too much. One in particular is to get a really nice bowed triplet. Unless it's my bow, mine are too... I don't know, sort of reminds me of Tommy Peoples', but I'd rather go for a clear and cleaner triplet. Satisfying..er. Also, sort of not relevant to the topic, but I'd also like to play well consistently! Only at my house in my hallway =[
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
however, yes, good discussion topic
Last night I found myself frustrated that I was getting notes wrong when transposing tunes to the viola. For some reason I just didn't fancy playing the fiddle and spent the whole night on the viola. I played rakes and rakes of tunes I've never played on the viola before ant it was great fun. But some notes I was just not getting, it was so frustrating.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I hear you, Michael. I have the same problem transferring tunes from ear to fingers. I'll listen to a tune over and over, and be able to whistle or lilt the whole thing, but there will be notes I can't sort out without a lot of frustration and repetition. It doesn't happen as often as it used to, but it happens.
My bowed triplets are pretty darned good if I do say so myself, especially if I can come into them on a down bow. Some of my rolls are good, although others suck.
What I'd most like to be able to do is learn a tune quickly by ear instead of needing about 90-100 repetitions to get it stuck in memory.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
On fiddle, I use chromatic bowed triplets a fair amount. By that, I mean where you finger different notes as you play the triplet. Can give great momentum to a tune when used judiciously, and there are lots of different ways to play them:
B/B/A
B/c/B
A/B/c
c/B/A
and so on.
It seems harder to do them across strings (say, B/A/G), but only when I'm consciously trying to do them. In the throes of winging through a tune, they often happen on their own and come out just fine.
As far as my wish list, I still can't get triplets firing consistently on the banjo at session speed. I know it's just a matter of getting banjo out more often (daily would be nice), but work and family often rule that out. On flute, I still have a long way to go on D cranns, and my A rolls could be crisper, too. But I'm miles ahead of where I was last year, so I'll just keep plugging away.
On fiddle, someday, just once, I'd like to get through an evening of tunes without the start of the B part of a tune vanishing just as I get to the turn.... Sheesh.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Play Scottish stuff on the DG melodeon in A Major, B Minor, F# Minor, as fast and / or snappily as is needed. I've got the goods - even the G# and other semitones - I'm just not bothering to practise.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
My most desired skill at present is immediate recall of tunes that I know, without being prompted by someone else starting them.
My second most desired skill is remembering the names of tunes. On second thoughts though, certainly not. If people catch on that I know the names of tunes I'll be spending half my time in sessions answering "Trev, what's the name of that tune?" type questions
On the plus side I've fairly recently discovered that I can often play tunes that have been transposed into a different key without realising that the tune has been transposed.
And Michael, yes, I not only saw him but heard him.
PS, Why does the automatic spell-checker in Firefox always underline "realising" (and a few other words that I'm sure are correctly typed) as incorrectly spelled?
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I much like my triplets and my fancy ornamentes that I use on certain notes. I can't really describe what it is, it is kind of like a GHB doubling but not quite.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Just a tip I learned . . . maybe you will benefit from it too. If you have a difficult measure or two in the tune or if you're trying to nail a particular ornamentation and cannot quite get it, play it slowly and continue to play it until you've executed it 10 times in a row without error. When you can do that, you'll "have it." If you mess up on #9, you have to start over. Andres Segovia (the father of classical guitar) referred to these difficult passages as "ghosts" that could be worked out in this manner. It can be a wee bit frustrating, but it works. Good luck!
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
to be honest, i'm quite happy with my playing as is. it's very much double-stopped and droned, with a lot of ringing low strings; for variation i simplify and play double stops for small phrases at a time. the fancy thing i want to do?
tune my fiddle : (
seriously. i can nail the fingering and put the instrument to proper fifths from any string, but damned if it's coming of anything near an actual D. i can tell if a string is out, but i can barely be sure if it's sharp or flat; i can tell i'm out of tune, but not what or how much. my whole instrument could be step flat in good intervals and i'd be totally screwed >_> just once i'd like to not look like a doofus electrically tuning!
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I'd love to be able to do a cran on the fiddle- Ive been saying it for years, but wouldnt even know where to start. Also Siobhan peoples does this totally groovey kind of made up roll/cut/something that I cant put my finger on -but its sounds amazing. I'd love to be able to do that. And I'd love to be able to hit the high C without having to really concentrate and to get it right most of the time.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Having switched from the mandolin to the fiddle....it's not the ornaments with my left hand so much as being able to control that ...bow....that I find tricky!. Still get accidental doublestops or completely bow the wrong string too often!
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Great replies! I'm really enjoying this.
Will, sounds like you get the sort of 'senior moments' I do ... I started a set of tunes the other week, got to the second tune and ... 2 notes in, it vanished ... Strange ... made a weird, unwanted hiatus in the flow of the session. Comforting to know it happens to others ...
Beebs, there've been lots of descriptions of how to do crans on this site, but about the best I saw was from our friend Mr Gill - hope I get this link right (never done this before):
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Hmmm ... didn't *quite* go to the right place in the thread - you'll have to scroll down about 10 posts to where Michael talks about ... aw, shoot, I'll copy what he said:
"a three finger flick, like you would drum on a table. Just lightly brush your fingers over the string without masking contact with the fingerboard. Timing is everthing, of course"
What Micahel's describing is not *exactly* what I do, but it works ...
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Just noticed, Dan the Man: you've been playing fiddle for about 18 months, and you feel able to say:
"i'm quite happy with my playing as is"
!!?!
I'll NEVER be happy with my playing, however hard I try and however much I improve and however long I live. Gosh, that's a challenge now: I'm going to have to improve even more than I planned to!
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I've only been playing for about 8 weeks now so I'm still crap, but my teacher seems to be very happy with my rolls, and my figure of eight bowing. I know these are basic techniques but man I get great satisfaction when Martin (my teacher) compliments my progress.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I can only do most basic ornamentation on the banjo. That would include triplets, rolls and slides.
I also add in some chords and drones on other strings. And Kieran Hanrahan gave me two techniques. One were you "dampen" the tiplet so you mute the first two notes. Another nice technique he gave me was this flicking of the string thing. It's the most equivelant of a cut on a fiddle. It's hard to describe but you can hear it in some of his recordings.
On the tin whistle I'm fairly satisfied with my cuts. I'm ok with my rolls on E, F and G but have trouble with them on A and B. I'm getting the hang of crans now too which I'm happy with but need more steady rythem.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Can do? (fiddle)
open string rolls
1st and 2nd finger rolls
driven upbow
the 'snap' in STM
Would like to improve
3rd finger rolls
snappier triplets
slurring across the bar
varying the bowing pattern
as someone else said above, getting to that high 'c'
when required
etc
etc!
etc!!
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Can do?
Many of the fingering tricks on a flute. GHB background helps, as U122 pointed out. Cranns are usually no problem. I even like top-hand cranns on occasion.
Friends have also told me I keep a very steady beat.
Can't do?
Breathe musically.
"Flutter" notes like, say, Seamus Egan.
Get consistent tone for an entire session.
Or even an entire set.
Glottal stop.
Tongue, appropriately.
Vary tunes.
Phrase tunes as musically as I would like.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I've been playing the violin since I was 8 (I'm 46 now), trained as a classical violinist, so technically I can execute most anything if I try it for about 5 minutes, but I don't want to be a violinist anymore, I want to be a fiddler! So the fancy thing I'd like to learn is style. I know I just need to get a ton of records and just listen.
Someone mentioned they'd like to hear the name of a song and just play it. If someone says, "Swallowtail Jig," a tune I know quite well, I have to listen to the first few notes in order to remember it. I just can't associate names with songs.
The thing my fingers can't always do, because I have problems with a tense left hand, is little trills like in the Butterfly. I can do them now, but it took a lot of work. I can generally execute any turns or trills but sometimes my hand just seizes up and I can't do it. My daughter's Suzuki teacher is showing me exercises to loosen up that hand. But it's hard to undo 30 years of bad habits!
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Because of a change in the lineup of our group, and departure of our whistle player, I am working on my whistle playing now, and getting better at rolls is a major part of that work.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I'm mostly happy with my rolls (except sometimes third finger) and triplets (except I need to work on the ones starting with an up bow).
I just want to play play play until it all keeps getting easier and I'm not focusing so much on little things and I can just *play*. It's starting to happen. I need to work on my fourth finger a lot more. But I'm very happy with how this year has been going.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
The technique I find best for doing a fast trill or similar finger movement (e.g. rolls) on the fiddle is not to hammer the finger up and down but to flutter it on the string with minimum up-and-down action. Much less effort (and faster).
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I've been playing violin for about thirty years now so most stuff I'm ok on. I would like to be able to tell which key a tune is in, somehow I can play it by ear without knowing, I don't know how that works. And I'd like to be able to pick good drone notes apart from open strings. I blame it on never learning to play the piano or any other instrument that uses chords. I'd also like to learn to do some of the things mentioned above that I'd never heard of before. Well, now I've identified the problems I just need to put them right. Those could be my first New Years Resolutions....Should keep me out of mischief for a while!
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Ben, lately my senior moments have become a steady stream...sigh.
Michael's description of an open string cran (or roll, whatever), is very good, and that's generally how I do them too. Done properly, and with a little practice, it's possible to get a very snappy, popping cran out of an open fiddle string.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
"Fancy" stuff I can do:
Backstitches
Double crans
Short rolls played back-to-back
Ascending and descending staccato triplets
Use the hard bottom D as a percussive device by slipping it into the offbeats on jigs
"inverting" melodic passages as a variation
Switching between "open" triplets and short rolls as a variation on certain notes
Off-the-leg playing for tonal color/increased volume/dynamic and rhythmic emphasis including "barks" or "yips"
Tapping regulator keys with the bottom of the chanter
Playing the chanter with the top hand while playing the regs keyboard-style with the bottom hand
Cutting notes on the offbeats for a little added swing
Things I wish I could do:
"Vamp" on the regs like Leo Rowsome or the Dorans
Play an air the way Seamus Ennis or Willie Clancy played airs
Play as fast and as loud as the fastest, loudest accordion players without sacrificing any articulation, ornamentation, lift, or tonal color.
Play in odd keys (for Pipes) like G minor comfortably
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Can't think of anything particularly fancy I can do but I wish I could do a half decent hard bottom D fast enough.
All rather sad really - I should have spent less time drinking and generally swinging the lead, and more time practicing.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
"I'd like to be able to pick good drone notes apart from open strings" - Bowburner
Someone else mentioned these 'drone note' things as well. What on earth are they? I play some drones when I play certain Scottish airs, eg, MacPherson's Lament, where it's possible to play the entire air against an open G drone, but drone notes are constant notes surely? The posts above seem to me to imply that they may be non-fixed (otherwise it would be hard indeed to play drones that were fingered on a fiddle). This is just playing a harmony, isn't it?
Or am I missing something?
Having said which, I do sometimes hold down the third or fourth finger on the D string for a while against other notes played on the A string as a sort of 'temporary' drone.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Well, I don't know if they are officially traditional, but when an open D or G string doesn't fit the sticking a harmonising finger down for a short while can just add a bit of depth. It's just working out which one to use that's the problem.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Cossack dance and play the bodhran at the same time, memorably at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester at a gig.
I can still cossack dance, and still play the bodhran, but I wouldn't like to try both together nowadays.
I used to boast "Dylan played at the Free Trade Hall, so did I", until I overheard Bob drawl one day to a friend, "Bliss played at the Free Trade Hall, and so did I".
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
What I can do:
Hmmm, nothing exceptional except maybe some decent ornaments on the guitar. But who hears that?
What I'd like to do:
Thumb triplets on the guitar, like Tony McManus. Or is that just a camera trick?
A decent bow triplet on the fiddle.
Have the gumption to practice more systematically instead of just playing what I already know.
Also, I'd like to be able to plant my pinky finger on the guitar while I fingerpick. I've played for mumblety-groan years without doing that, but my wrist has lost some stability from an old strain injury and it would really help to have that crutch. Trouble is, it would force me to radically change my hand posture and string attack. The anatomy of my hands has evolved to suit a particular posture and if I move too far from it, I don't have the strength or control to play well. I've figured out that if the pinky were about an inch longer, it would work. Anybody know of a pinky extender?
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
BenHall - I'm with you on that one - Dantheman 18 months and your happy? Do you think it may have something to do with beer? I've been playing 11 years and I'll never be happy or satisfied - which is what keeps me playing in the first place.....constantly trying to get better etc.
Thanks for the cran tips guys - I'll have to give it a try!
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
hehe. alright, let me clarify: i'm always trying to get better, but i can definitely appreciate the sound i make as is. it's neither boring, nor overly complex; it is listenable, and people like hearing me play. for my own sake, i like how it's stylistically evolved to focus on sympathies, harmonies and drones. so let's say i like the fact that -at 18 months- i am where i am. less worrisome? ; )
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Hmmm ... nope, it still worries me. I've been trying hard for a fair bit of the last 42 years, and I'm not happy with the sound I make. And, as I said before, I never *will* be.
... and what ARE these "drones"? To me, as I said in my previous post, a drone is a constant note. You can only do that very rarely on a fiddle, but your implication, Dan, is that you're doing it quite a lot of the time. So you must be doing something different from what I mean by 'drones'. What is it that you're doing? I'd like to know, because it may be something that I would find useful and could incorporate into my *own* playing.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Ben, I may be wrong cuz I'm just guessing here, but I suspect he means playing an adjacent string while you sound the melody on another string. Some bluegrass and old-timey fiddlers do this nearly constantly, sometimes by retuning the fiddle (AEAE is popular for this), and sometimes just by holding doublestops.
Either way, it's not all that common in Irish and Scottish fiddling to drone nearly all the time, though a few fiddlers in these traditions do it significantly more than others.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
O-o-o-ka-y-y-y ... I do a fair amount of what *I* call double stopping and/or harmony notes. Is this what we're talking about? I think it's only a terminological thing here - it's just that I've alway reserved the term drone - except when describing a physical part or parts of a set of pipes - for held notes which are played constantly throughout at least a substantial part, if not all, of a melody.
I learned to do the double stopping thing very early in my fiddle playing "career" (in the loosest sense of that word!) from a fella called 'Dublin' Moran, who ran a folk club in Newport in South Wales. He said he got it from fiddle players when he was a kid, which would have been around the forties and fifties I would have thought. Wouldn't bank on the provenance of it as 'tradition' but I like doing it, and he said I'd got it just like 'them old guys'.
It's late here, so I'll away for now, but any more elucidation would be appreciated when I surface ...
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Okay, I take this as an opportunity to expound on what constitutes my favorite fiddling topic ever. Hopefully, I can say something new or enlightening for you in this big thingie.
In a strict fiddling sense, "drone" and "double stop" simply refer to any period in which two notes are sounded: a double stop involves stopping two strings, i.e., fingering two notes; a drone involves playing an open string with a fingered note, or two open strings, to produce harmony. It's done for a few reasons: extra volume, aural interest, or in some traditional sense to mimic the real drone from bagpipes.
The idea of playing a single sustained note through a tune is a drone for pipes, but most fiddle tunes can't manage that. It is indeed possible, and in fact insanely fun, to do so through two different means. One, you finger it: you can sustain a fourth-finger drone on a string (s1), play on the next string up (s2), and then drone on the open s2 for playing on the final string up (s3); similarly, you could hold a first-finger drone on s1 and drone between 1st finger s1 and open s3. However, this has obvious drawbacks, limiting range and ornamental capacity. So, the best (well...I love it, anyway) way to achieve a drone is probably to use scordatura; if s1 = s2, then you can play s1 and s2 together, then s2 and s3 together, without losing the harmony of the notes in the key. Technically, you can sustain the same note the whole way through - jumping octaves, however. With a sufficiently loud fiddle or a hardingfele, though - you have a new possibility, which occurs through proper returning. String sympathies can produce an entirely different kind of drone, a subtler and richer kind of tonal veneer that makes the instrument warm and bold. This was my first foray into the realm: try playing Johnny Mickey's Slide in GDAE, then ADAE. You can hear the paired A's ringing throughout the whole tune. It produces a drone much similar to that of the pipes, though much quieter - an octave-complementary tone beneath the playing. I never understood the DDAE "Bonaparte's Retreat" tuning until I realized it did exactly those two things we considered: a) my sympathetic D drone, and b) sustained your "held note" (D) drone throughout, even when it went onto the [regular] D string.
Usually, though, a drone is, like you said, played through "a substantial part" of a melody. What that usually means is a drone PAIR - playing on the two middle strings for a segment, playing the two high strings for a segment, etc. Even when your drone note and melody note switch places instantly (it's a cool way to go from high up to down low), it's still droning.
The weird thing is thinking about playing a harmony note to an open string. In Britches Full of Stitches, Kevin Burke plays the opening A note with a low E for harmony. If it's an open string and a closed one, it's not, by definition a double-stop; by the same token, since the open string is the melody note, it's not a drone! I just call them "harmony notes" and have done with it.
So if you have learned nothing, you've at least learned how 18 months of fiddling approaches droning : P
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Dan, thanks for the good explanation of what you're doing. I agree, the terminology can be clumsier than the actual fingering.
I'm amazed at what you've been able to comprehend on the fiddle in just 18 months. At that stage, my "drones" were nearly all inadvertent--mishaps, not intentional harmonies. I was just struggling to flog the beat and get the bow hair and a finger on the same string.
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Thanks Dan - I think I understand what you're doing now. I do some of it, but not all, because I don't think it would fit stylistically with the basically Sligo style of playing I try to adopt.
For instance, I never re-tune the fiddle. I learned about that over one intense period about 25 years ago and decided that, whilst it sounded good as used by some American fiddlers playing American styles, it didn't fit for me playing Irish. Also, you'd have to be prepared for it to damage the fiddle. I do now have a fiddle with an extra synpathetic string tuned an octave below the D string, and that sound really nice, but I wouldn't use it most of the time, especially not in sessions where the subtleties would be lost, and the instrument itself would be a bit of an imposition (it looks so weird, it would be like showing off).
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Will, you're spot on with that one. Music is hard enough to capture in dots, 5 lines and 4 spaces - it's impossible to do it in just a bunch of curvy lines : P
Ah, suddenly your motivation for this topic comes out! Sligo is a lot different from what I do - most of my listening and style is Sliabh Luachra, Kerry, Cork, and Clare (and the Dingle Peninsula!). However, it is interesting to note about drones, in relation to Sligo fiddling - do you have the two-disc Michael Coleman set, the one with a drawing of him on the cover and a little book inside? One of the quotes in there notes that Coleman used his G as a droning bass string, "like a bagpipe".
Retuning, I've found, is a remarkable tool. It pops up in some weird places in Irish music - the much-vaunted Foxhunter's Reel in AEAE from Patrick Kelly, for example, or B flat sets for pipes and whistle of course. In addition, the very Sliabh Luachra practice of playing the bass becomes very simple and rather more satisfying when crosstuned or lifted. Damage to your fiddle? Shouldn't be a problem, with good strings and a good instrument. All you need is the patience to retune as needed and the courage to reset your bridge occasionally!
Sympathetic strings, you're right; session-wise, they're odd. However, playing alone or in a small group, in a more intimate setting, they are phenomenal for filling the space, as it were. Do you play for your family or friends? I find it's best especially these times, with lights down and the illumination burning off a fire and a Christmas tree; subtler playing is appreciated much better. Those bass D's, though - ooh, exquisite drones!
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Do I play for family and friends? Well, the occasional 'kitchen' session and, at those, the sympathetic string on the bass D is fantastic - you're right, brilliant for atmospherics!
You're also right about the open G drone, which, as I mentioned in a previous post, I do use from time to time, specifically to imitate the pipes.
My motivation for the topic, though, was just to learn - I was hoping that we'd get people describing what they do, and there'd be all sorts of things that I hadn't even thought of. And we have had some of those, for which I'm grateful.
Also, if there are things that people are finding difficult, it would be interesting, because they might be the exact things that I might have found difficult over the years - interestingly, some of those I've probably put completely out of my mind because there are some things, in my experience, that you just accept after a while that you're never going to get, so you lose interest, and just admire them in others' playing instead.
Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I know there's a lot going on in other threads, but, whilst playing a few tunes just now, I found myself thinking about what I'm actually putting into the music and what I'd like to put in.
I'd like to think I'm an OK fiddle player - I have no YouTube videos to point you to or anything like that, so you'll have to take my word for it. I'm OK.
And there are some things I do which I'm really quite proud of - my rolls on first finger, for instance, using the third finger hammered on and then not *quite* releasing the first finger, which makes an extra 'bonus' note appear from nowhere and, I fondly think, sounds a bit like a pipe ornament.
But there are other things I hear other players do - not necessarily on fiddle - that I wish I could do too. Certain trebles, some of that magical variation that goes far afield from the melody and yet STILL stays true to the tune, a sweetness of tone that I can get, but sometimes forget to ... and others.
So, what's everyone else's pet trick, and what's your most wanted skill you don't yet have?
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by ethical blend
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Good discussion topic.
A while back I became quite conscious of my inability to do bowed triplets and have them sound snappy and precise. So, I spent about a half hour or so practicing them every day for a few weeks. They are now quite nice and snappyand I get the occasional compliment from others, so I guess the practice payed off.
I too wish I could come up with great variations on the fly, but I think thats something that only comes after years of playing the tunesand playing with them. Working towards that, I find that listening to a few different players play a tune and figure out the finering for each of their variations gives me a good idea of what kind of room there is in the melody. Hopefully it will come more naturally in the future.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Splendid Isolation
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Ben is indeed an OK fiddle player - I've seen him in action.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
heard Trev, heard
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Fancy stuff I can do.. Well, on the fiddle, I'm quite fond of my rolls [especially those first finger rolls on the G] SEXXXXXY!!! That's about it.. Variations are sort of difficult for me when it comes to fiddle, but I feel much more at home with the whistle when it comes to that.
Fancy stuff I'd like to do? Ah. Too much. One in particular is to get a really nice bowed triplet. Unless it's my bow, mine are too... I don't know, sort of reminds me of Tommy Peoples', but I'd rather go for a clear and cleaner triplet. Satisfying..er. Also, sort of not relevant to the topic, but I'd also like to play well consistently! Only at my house in my hallway =[
Cheers,
Armand
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by armandale
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Hey! Armand
Everything's fancy on the fiddle, even just playing well consistently - in fact it's too bloody difficult an instrument if you ask me!
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by ethical blend
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
however, yes, good discussion topic
Last night I found myself frustrated that I was getting notes wrong when transposing tunes to the viola. For some reason I just didn't fancy playing the fiddle and spent the whole night on the viola. I played rakes and rakes of tunes I've never played on the viola before ant it was great fun. But some notes I was just not getting, it was so frustrating.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by llig leahcim
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I hear you, Michael. I have the same problem transferring tunes from ear to fingers. I'll listen to a tune over and over, and be able to whistle or lilt the whole thing, but there will be notes I can't sort out without a lot of frustration and repetition. It doesn't happen as often as it used to, but it happens.
My bowed triplets are pretty darned good if I do say so myself, especially if I can come into them on a down bow. Some of my rolls are good, although others suck.
What I'd most like to be able to do is learn a tune quickly by ear instead of needing about 90-100 repetitions to get it stuck in memory.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by sara g
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
On fiddle, I use chromatic bowed triplets a fair amount. By that, I mean where you finger different notes as you play the triplet. Can give great momentum to a tune when used judiciously, and there are lots of different ways to play them:
B/B/A
B/c/B
A/B/c
c/B/A
and so on.
It seems harder to do them across strings (say, B/A/G), but only when I'm consciously trying to do them. In the throes of winging through a tune, they often happen on their own and come out just fine.
As far as my wish list, I still can't get triplets firing consistently on the banjo at session speed. I know it's just a matter of getting banjo out more often (daily would be nice), but work and family often rule that out. On flute, I still have a long way to go on D cranns, and my A rolls could be crisper, too. But I'm miles ahead of where I was last year, so I'll just keep plugging away.
On fiddle, someday, just once, I'd like to get through an evening of tunes without the start of the B part of a tune vanishing just as I get to the turn.... Sheesh.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Will Harmon
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Play Scottish stuff on the DG melodeon in A Major, B Minor, F# Minor, as fast and / or snappily as is needed. I've got the goods - even the G# and other semitones - I'm just not bothering to practise.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by nicholas
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
My most desired skill at present is immediate recall of tunes that I know, without being prompted by someone else starting them.
My second most desired skill is remembering the names of tunes. On second thoughts though, certainly not. If people catch on that I know the names of tunes I'll be spending half my time in sessions answering "Trev, what's the name of that tune?" type questions
On the plus side I've fairly recently discovered that I can often play tunes that have been transposed into a different key without realising that the tune has been transposed.
And Michael, yes, I not only saw him but heard him.
PS, Why does the automatic spell-checker in Firefox always underline "realising" (and a few other words that I'm sure are correctly typed) as incorrectly spelled?
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I much like my triplets and my fancy ornamentes that I use on certain notes. I can't really describe what it is, it is kind of like a GHB doubling but not quite.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Why Bother?
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
i'll let you know in10 years.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Kheelch
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
lh, maybe it's using American English.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Kheelch
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Just a tip I learned . . . maybe you will benefit from it too. If you have a difficult measure or two in the tune or if you're trying to nail a particular ornamentation and cannot quite get it, play it slowly and continue to play it until you've executed it 10 times in a row without error. When you can do that, you'll "have it." If you mess up on #9, you have to start over. Andres Segovia (the father of classical guitar) referred to these difficult passages as "ghosts" that could be worked out in this manner. It can be a wee bit frustrating, but it works. Good luck!
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by justwhistle
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
to be honest, i'm quite happy with my playing as is. it's very much double-stopped and droned, with a lot of ringing low strings; for variation i simplify and play double stops for small phrases at a time. the fancy thing i want to do?
tune my fiddle : (
seriously. i can nail the fingering and put the instrument to proper fifths from any string, but damned if it's coming of anything near an actual D. i can tell if a string is out, but i can barely be sure if it's sharp or flat; i can tell i'm out of tune, but not what or how much. my whole instrument could be step flat in good intervals and i'd be totally screwed >_> just once i'd like to not look like a doofus electrically tuning!
--DtM
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Dan the Man
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I'd love to be able to do a cran on the fiddle- Ive been saying it for years, but wouldnt even know where to start. Also Siobhan peoples does this totally groovey kind of made up roll/cut/something that I cant put my finger on -but its sounds amazing. I'd love to be able to do that. And I'd love to be able to hit the high C without having to really concentrate and to get it right most of the time.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by bb
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Having switched from the mandolin to the fiddle....it's not the ornaments with my left hand so much as being able to control that ...bow....that I find tricky!. Still get accidental doublestops or completely bow the wrong string too often!
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by FiddleFancy
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Great replies! I'm really enjoying this.
Will, sounds like you get the sort of 'senior moments' I do ... I started a set of tunes the other week, got to the second tune and ... 2 notes in, it vanished ... Strange ... made a weird, unwanted hiatus in the flow of the session. Comforting to know it happens to others ...
Beebs, there've been lots of descriptions of how to do crans on this site, but about the best I saw was from our friend Mr Gill - hope I get this link right (never done this before):
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/11576/comments#comment235187
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by ethical blend
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Hmmm ... didn't *quite* go to the right place in the thread - you'll have to scroll down about 10 posts to where Michael talks about ... aw, shoot, I'll copy what he said:
"a three finger flick, like you would drum on a table. Just lightly brush your fingers over the string without masking contact with the fingerboard. Timing is everthing, of course"
What Micahel's describing is not *exactly* what I do, but it works ...
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by ethical blend
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
When fingerpicking, I can do some neat tremolo-style triplets.
Fancy stuff I'd like to do... hand control, hand control!
On the flute, I can't do anything spectacular yet, but my biggest dream at the moment is consistent embochure (call it fancy) and a proper A roll.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Janek
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Just noticed, Dan the Man: you've been playing fiddle for about 18 months, and you feel able to say:
"i'm quite happy with my playing as is"
!!?!
I'll NEVER be happy with my playing, however hard I try and however much I improve and however long I live. Gosh, that's a challenge now: I'm going to have to improve even more than I planned to!
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by ethical blend
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I've played the fiddle for 15 minutes and I'm quite happy with my playing as it is.
Or was it "fed up"?
Those lexical intricacies...
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Janek
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I've only been playing for about 8 weeks now so I'm still crap, but my teacher seems to be very happy with my rolls, and my figure of eight bowing. I know these are basic techniques but man I get great satisfaction when Martin (my teacher) compliments my progress.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by session savage
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I can only do most basic ornamentation on the banjo. That would include triplets, rolls and slides.
I also add in some chords and drones on other strings. And Kieran Hanrahan gave me two techniques. One were you "dampen" the tiplet so you mute the first two notes. Another nice technique he gave me was this flicking of the string thing. It's the most equivelant of a cut on a fiddle. It's hard to describe but you can hear it in some of his recordings.
On the tin whistle I'm fairly satisfied with my cuts. I'm ok with my rolls on E, F and G but have trouble with them on A and B. I'm getting the hang of crans now too which I'm happy with but need more steady rythem.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by 52Paddy
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Can do? (fiddle)
open string rolls
1st and 2nd finger rolls
driven upbow
the 'snap' in STM
Would like to improve
3rd finger rolls
snappier triplets
slurring across the bar
varying the bowing pattern
as someone else said above, getting to that high 'c'
when required
etc
etc!
etc!!
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by domnull
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Can do?
Many of the fingering tricks on a flute. GHB background helps, as U122 pointed out. Cranns are usually no problem. I even like top-hand cranns on occasion.
Friends have also told me I keep a very steady beat.
Can't do?
Breathe musically.
"Flutter" notes like, say, Seamus Egan.
Get consistent tone for an entire session.
Or even an entire set.
Glottal stop.
Tongue, appropriately.
Vary tunes.
Phrase tunes as musically as I would like.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by wormdiet
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I've only been playing for about 8 years now so I'm still crap, but want I'd like to be able to do is play as well in the pub as I do in the kitchen.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by JerryH
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I've been playing the violin since I was 8 (I'm 46 now), trained as a classical violinist, so technically I can execute most anything if I try it for about 5 minutes, but I don't want to be a violinist anymore, I want to be a fiddler! So the fancy thing I'd like to learn is style. I know I just need to get a ton of records and just listen.
Someone mentioned they'd like to hear the name of a song and just play it. If someone says, "Swallowtail Jig," a tune I know quite well, I have to listen to the first few notes in order to remember it. I just can't associate names with songs.
The thing my fingers can't always do, because I have problems with a tense left hand, is little trills like in the Butterfly. I can do them now, but it took a lot of work. I can generally execute any turns or trills but sometimes my hand just seizes up and I can't do it. My daughter's Suzuki teacher is showing me exercises to loosen up that hand. But it's hard to undo 30 years of bad habits!
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by coollit
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Because of a change in the lineup of our group, and departure of our whistle player, I am working on my whistle playing now, and getting better at rolls is a major part of that work.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I'm mostly happy with my rolls (except sometimes third finger) and triplets (except I need to work on the ones starting with an up bow).
I just want to play play play until it all keeps getting easier and I'm not focusing so much on little things and I can just *play*. It's starting to happen. I need to work on my fourth finger a lot more. But I'm very happy with how this year has been going.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by winterowl
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
The technique I find best for doing a fast trill or similar finger movement (e.g. rolls) on the fiddle is not to hammer the finger up and down but to flutter it on the string with minimum up-and-down action. Much less effort (and faster).
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I can do 1st and 3rd finger rolls and some pretty good figure eights.
I want to play fast! Everything in good time, I guess...
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by kennedy
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I've been playing violin for about thirty years now so most stuff I'm ok on. I would like to be able to tell which key a tune is in, somehow I can play it by ear without knowing, I don't know how that works. And I'd like to be able to pick good drone notes apart from open strings. I blame it on never learning to play the piano or any other instrument that uses chords. I'd also like to learn to do some of the things mentioned above that I'd never heard of before. Well, now I've identified the problems I just need to put them right. Those could be my first New Years Resolutions....Should keep me out of mischief for a while!
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by bowburner
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Ben, lately my senior moments have become a steady stream...sigh.
Michael's description of an open string cran (or roll, whatever), is very good, and that's generally how I do them too. Done properly, and with a little practice, it's possible to get a very snappy, popping cran out of an open fiddle string.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Will Harmon
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
"Fancy" stuff I can do:
Backstitches
Double crans
Short rolls played back-to-back
Ascending and descending staccato triplets
Use the hard bottom D as a percussive device by slipping it into the offbeats on jigs
"inverting" melodic passages as a variation
Switching between "open" triplets and short rolls as a variation on certain notes
Off-the-leg playing for tonal color/increased volume/dynamic and rhythmic emphasis including "barks" or "yips"
Tapping regulator keys with the bottom of the chanter
Playing the chanter with the top hand while playing the regs keyboard-style with the bottom hand
Cutting notes on the offbeats for a little added swing
Things I wish I could do:
"Vamp" on the regs like Leo Rowsome or the Dorans
Play an air the way Seamus Ennis or Willie Clancy played airs
Play as fast and as loud as the fastest, loudest accordion players without sacrificing any articulation, ornamentation, lift, or tonal color.
Play in odd keys (for Pipes) like G minor comfortably
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Hanley
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Can't think of anything particularly fancy I can do but I wish I could do a half decent hard bottom D fast enough.
All rather sad really - I should have spent less time drinking and generally swinging the lead, and more time practicing.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Ottery
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Ottery
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
"I'd like to be able to pick good drone notes apart from open strings" - Bowburner
Someone else mentioned these 'drone note' things as well. What on earth are they? I play some drones when I play certain Scottish airs, eg, MacPherson's Lament, where it's possible to play the entire air against an open G drone, but drone notes are constant notes surely? The posts above seem to me to imply that they may be non-fixed (otherwise it would be hard indeed to play drones that were fingered on a fiddle). This is just playing a harmony, isn't it?
Or am I missing something?
Having said which, I do sometimes hold down the third or fourth finger on the D string for a while against other notes played on the A string as a sort of 'temporary' drone.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by ethical blend
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Well, I don't know if they are officially traditional, but when an open D or G string doesn't fit the sticking a harmonising finger down for a short while can just add a bit of depth. It's just working out which one to use that's the problem.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by bowburner
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Cossack dance and play the bodhran at the same time, memorably at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester at a gig.
I can still cossack dance, and still play the bodhran, but I wouldn't like to try both together nowadays.
I used to boast "Dylan played at the Free Trade Hall, so did I", until I overheard Bob drawl one day to a friend, "Bliss played at the Free Trade Hall, and so did I".
I hate name droppers.
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
What I can do:
Hmmm, nothing exceptional except maybe some decent ornaments on the guitar. But who hears that?
What I'd like to do:
Thumb triplets on the guitar, like Tony McManus. Or is that just a camera trick?
A decent bow triplet on the fiddle.
Have the gumption to practice more systematically instead of just playing what I already know.
Also, I'd like to be able to plant my pinky finger on the guitar while I fingerpick. I've played for mumblety-groan years without doing that, but my wrist has lost some stability from an old strain injury and it would really help to have that crutch. Trouble is, it would force me to radically change my hand posture and string attack. The anatomy of my hands has evolved to suit a particular posture and if I move too far from it, I don't have the strength or control to play well. I've figured out that if the pinky were about an inch longer, it would work. Anybody know of a pinky extender?
# Posted on December 14th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I'm calling on behalf of ...a friend, who wants to know if the doctor can ...um, extend his pinky for him?
# Posted on December 15th 2006 by oldstrings
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Oh, just about an inch, but, you know, if more were convenient..........
# Posted on December 15th 2006 by oldstrings
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
"it would really help to have that crutch"
# Posted on December 15th 2006 by oldstrings
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
I sometimes throw in a triple Lindy.
# Posted on December 15th 2006 by Kheelch
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
BenHall - I'm with you on that one - Dantheman 18 months and your happy? Do you think it may have something to do with beer? I've been playing 11 years and I'll never be happy or satisfied - which is what keeps me playing in the first place.....constantly trying to get better etc.
Thanks for the cran tips guys - I'll have to give it a try!
# Posted on December 15th 2006 by bb
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
LOL, Bob there are all sorts of "extension" and "enhancement" snake oils sold these days. Don't see why they shouldn't work on your pinky, too.
# Posted on December 15th 2006 by Will Harmon
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
hehe. alright, let me clarify: i'm always trying to get better, but i can definitely appreciate the sound i make as is. it's neither boring, nor overly complex; it is listenable, and people like hearing me play. for my own sake, i like how it's stylistically evolved to focus on sympathies, harmonies and drones. so let's say i like the fact that -at 18 months- i am where i am. less worrisome? ; )
--DtM
# Posted on December 16th 2006 by Dan the Man
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Hmmm ... nope, it still worries me. I've been trying hard for a fair bit of the last 42 years, and I'm not happy with the sound I make. And, as I said before, I never *will* be.
... and what ARE these "drones"? To me, as I said in my previous post, a drone is a constant note. You can only do that very rarely on a fiddle, but your implication, Dan, is that you're doing it quite a lot of the time. So you must be doing something different from what I mean by 'drones'. What is it that you're doing? I'd like to know, because it may be something that I would find useful and could incorporate into my *own* playing.
Anyone else do these 'drone' things?
# Posted on December 16th 2006 by ethical blend
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Ben, I may be wrong cuz I'm just guessing here, but I suspect he means playing an adjacent string while you sound the melody on another string. Some bluegrass and old-timey fiddlers do this nearly constantly, sometimes by retuning the fiddle (AEAE is popular for this), and sometimes just by holding doublestops.
Either way, it's not all that common in Irish and Scottish fiddling to drone nearly all the time, though a few fiddlers in these traditions do it significantly more than others.
# Posted on December 16th 2006 by Will Harmon
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
O-o-o-ka-y-y-y ... I do a fair amount of what *I* call double stopping and/or harmony notes. Is this what we're talking about? I think it's only a terminological thing here - it's just that I've alway reserved the term drone - except when describing a physical part or parts of a set of pipes - for held notes which are played constantly throughout at least a substantial part, if not all, of a melody.
I learned to do the double stopping thing very early in my fiddle playing "career" (in the loosest sense of that word!) from a fella called 'Dublin' Moran, who ran a folk club in Newport in South Wales. He said he got it from fiddle players when he was a kid, which would have been around the forties and fifties I would have thought. Wouldn't bank on the provenance of it as 'tradition' but I like doing it, and he said I'd got it just like 'them old guys'.
It's late here, so I'll away for now, but any more elucidation would be appreciated when I surface ...
Good ni-g-h-zzzzz-ZZZZZ-zzzzz
# Posted on December 16th 2006 by ethical blend
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Okay, I take this as an opportunity to expound on what constitutes my favorite fiddling topic ever. Hopefully, I can say something new or enlightening for you in this big thingie.
In a strict fiddling sense, "drone" and "double stop" simply refer to any period in which two notes are sounded: a double stop involves stopping two strings, i.e., fingering two notes; a drone involves playing an open string with a fingered note, or two open strings, to produce harmony. It's done for a few reasons: extra volume, aural interest, or in some traditional sense to mimic the real drone from bagpipes.
The idea of playing a single sustained note through a tune is a drone for pipes, but most fiddle tunes can't manage that. It is indeed possible, and in fact insanely fun, to do so through two different means. One, you finger it: you can sustain a fourth-finger drone on a string (s1), play on the next string up (s2), and then drone on the open s2 for playing on the final string up (s3); similarly, you could hold a first-finger drone on s1 and drone between 1st finger s1 and open s3. However, this has obvious drawbacks, limiting range and ornamental capacity. So, the best (well...I love it, anyway) way to achieve a drone is probably to use scordatura; if s1 = s2, then you can play s1 and s2 together, then s2 and s3 together, without losing the harmony of the notes in the key. Technically, you can sustain the same note the whole way through - jumping octaves, however. With a sufficiently loud fiddle or a hardingfele, though - you have a new possibility, which occurs through proper returning. String sympathies can produce an entirely different kind of drone, a subtler and richer kind of tonal veneer that makes the instrument warm and bold. This was my first foray into the realm: try playing Johnny Mickey's Slide in GDAE, then ADAE. You can hear the paired A's ringing throughout the whole tune. It produces a drone much similar to that of the pipes, though much quieter - an octave-complementary tone beneath the playing. I never understood the DDAE "Bonaparte's Retreat" tuning until I realized it did exactly those two things we considered: a) my sympathetic D drone, and b) sustained your "held note" (D) drone throughout, even when it went onto the [regular] D string.
Usually, though, a drone is, like you said, played through "a substantial part" of a melody. What that usually means is a drone PAIR - playing on the two middle strings for a segment, playing the two high strings for a segment, etc. Even when your drone note and melody note switch places instantly (it's a cool way to go from high up to down low), it's still droning.
The weird thing is thinking about playing a harmony note to an open string. In Britches Full of Stitches, Kevin Burke plays the opening A note with a low E for harmony. If it's an open string and a closed one, it's not, by definition a double-stop; by the same token, since the open string is the melody note, it's not a drone! I just call them "harmony notes" and have done with it.
So if you have learned nothing, you've at least learned how 18 months of fiddling approaches droning : P
--DtM
# Posted on December 16th 2006 by Dan the Man
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Dan, thanks for the good explanation of what you're doing. I agree, the terminology can be clumsier than the actual fingering.
I'm amazed at what you've been able to comprehend on the fiddle in just 18 months. At that stage, my "drones" were nearly all inadvertent--mishaps, not intentional harmonies. I was just struggling to flog the beat and get the bow hair and a finger on the same string.
# Posted on December 16th 2006 by Will Harmon
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Thanks Dan - I think I understand what you're doing now. I do some of it, but not all, because I don't think it would fit stylistically with the basically Sligo style of playing I try to adopt.
For instance, I never re-tune the fiddle. I learned about that over one intense period about 25 years ago and decided that, whilst it sounded good as used by some American fiddlers playing American styles, it didn't fit for me playing Irish. Also, you'd have to be prepared for it to damage the fiddle. I do now have a fiddle with an extra synpathetic string tuned an octave below the D string, and that sound really nice, but I wouldn't use it most of the time, especially not in sessions where the subtleties would be lost, and the instrument itself would be a bit of an imposition (it looks so weird, it would be like showing off).
# Posted on December 16th 2006 by ethical blend
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Will, you're spot on with that one. Music is hard enough to capture in dots, 5 lines and 4 spaces - it's impossible to do it in just a bunch of curvy lines : P
Ah, suddenly your motivation for this topic comes out! Sligo is a lot different from what I do - most of my listening and style is Sliabh Luachra, Kerry, Cork, and Clare (and the Dingle Peninsula!). However, it is interesting to note about drones, in relation to Sligo fiddling - do you have the two-disc Michael Coleman set, the one with a drawing of him on the cover and a little book inside? One of the quotes in there notes that Coleman used his G as a droning bass string, "like a bagpipe".
Retuning, I've found, is a remarkable tool. It pops up in some weird places in Irish music - the much-vaunted Foxhunter's Reel in AEAE from Patrick Kelly, for example, or B flat sets for pipes and whistle of course. In addition, the very Sliabh Luachra practice of playing the bass becomes very simple and rather more satisfying when crosstuned or lifted. Damage to your fiddle? Shouldn't be a problem, with good strings and a good instrument. All you need is the patience to retune as needed and the courage to reset your bridge occasionally!
Sympathetic strings, you're right; session-wise, they're odd. However, playing alone or in a small group, in a more intimate setting, they are phenomenal for filling the space, as it were. Do you play for your family or friends? I find it's best especially these times, with lights down and the illumination burning off a fire and a Christmas tree; subtler playing is appreciated much better. Those bass D's, though - ooh, exquisite drones!
--DtM
# Posted on December 17th 2006 by Dan the Man
Re: Fancy stuff you can do ... and fancy stuff you'd like to do
Do I play for family and friends? Well, the occasional 'kitchen' session and, at those, the sympathetic string on the bass D is fantastic - you're right, brilliant for atmospherics!
You're also right about the open G drone, which, as I mentioned in a previous post, I do use from time to time, specifically to imitate the pipes.
My motivation for the topic, though, was just to learn - I was hoping that we'd get people describing what they do, and there'd be all sorts of things that I hadn't even thought of. And we have had some of those, for which I'm grateful.
Also, if there are things that people are finding difficult, it would be interesting, because they might be the exact things that I might have found difficult over the years - interestingly, some of those I've probably put completely out of my mind because there are some things, in my experience, that you just accept after a while that you're never going to get, so you lose interest, and just admire them in others' playing instead.
# Posted on December 17th 2006 by ethical blend