Hello,
Does anyone out there play banjolins or melody banjos? I'm talking about the 4-string instrument with a banjo head and mandolin scale neck, tuned like a violin. I know they are pretty rare. I've only seen one in person. Are these considered to be good instruments, or are they inferior to the more common tenor banjo and mandolin?
Used to play a banjo mandolin, now play tenor banjo, mandolin, octave mandolin, resonator mandolin.
There are some horrible examples out there which will be hard to play and harder to listen to; there are also a few very fine models which will be a pleasure to play but not to pay for.
They are not meant for serenading senoritas, but will do their share in a dance band. End of story.
"There are some horrible examples out there which will be hard to play and harder to listen to; there are also a few very fine models which will be a pleasure to play but not to pay for.
They are not meant for serenading senoritas, but will do their share in a dance band. End of story."
<< I like how you phrased that..
My two cents: In terms of playability, intonation and tone, you really do get what you pay for. Or, rather, with a cheap one, you (and your neighbors) will notice the lack of what you *didn't* pay for that much more.
Inch-for-inch, the banjolin has to be the loudest instrument on Earth. You can almost outvoice a box. If you're going to play it in public, just make sure you know what you're doing, I have seen banjolins clear a room before (not kidding).
Most of what I've seen on eBay looks like total junk, sellers picking them up at estate auctions and trying to turn a profit. On the other hand, I've seen very nice and very playable models in used guitar shops before, usually going around the $450-$650 range, which is more than I'd ever pay. But something tells me you'd have more than usual leverage in the bargain, because it's somewhat of a novelty or specialty instrument that won't exactly be flying off the shelf.
Someone must be making present-day models, I'd give it a Google.
"...usually going around the $450-$650 range, which is more than I'd ever pay."
I've just rethought this statement. It occured to me that if I was really considering a purchase, I wouldn't feel comfortable paying less than that amount for a banjolin. Anything cheaper would probably be a total disaster.
I've actually been looking for one - my main instrument is my Petersen Octave Mando, and my traveling / other instrument is my Mid Missouri mandolin. I picked up a Goodtime Tenor Banjo thinking it would be fun, but after playing on it for a while, I've decided I want to swap it for a banjolin (wish me luck - any leads would be more than welcome).
Lark in the Morning has a couple, but neither looks all that good. To be honest, I just saw them online, haven't played either of them.
the mandolin banjo has 8 strings - a really good one can be joy to play - the vast bulk of the ones that you'll see around are junk. there are now a couple of modern types available that are pretty good from the point of view of tuning stability and tone - but they are pretty heavy for their size.
the banjolin or melody banjos has 4 strings - really good vintage examples area bit hard to find but do exist. i've been building a fairly convincing modern type for some years now (sometimes referred to as a "little twangy things" on this site) which provide an extra octave to the banjo player (can be useful at multi-banjo sessions) or a less daunting alternative for the mandolin player who wants to be heard ...
I've just bought a Mandolin Banjo off ebay, 8 strings, tuned like a mandolin . . most of my friends told me don't buy one cos they are s**t . . but me being the stubborn pillock, won't listen to advise, got one anyway !
Anyway I proved them all wrong its a goodun. I agree there are a lot of band examples out there, but I dropped on a nice one.
I was a bit concerned before I bought it without playing it, but I only paid £30 for it incl. P&P, and had a local luthier do it me up for £70 . He put on a new vellum . . tailpiece . . bridge . . nut . . strings . . and it sounds great. If any ones interested its a Bell Tone, an old one. Funny can't find any information about it on the internet.
Some mando/banjos are difficult to keep in tune and this is no exception . . but if I use a digital tuner and keep tweaking it its not that much of a problem. If I were to put extra/extra light strings on it, I bet It would stay in tune much better.
It can even drowned out a 5 string banjo!
Aparrently its got a chamber/resonator thing inside which amplifies the sound and improves the tone.
I would have prefered it to sound more like a mandolin the a banjo . . but its sweet enough and has plenty of sustain.
I've certainly no regrets about buying it, and I would expect now to get twice what I paid in total for it . . SMART.
Vega made one (i.e. 4 string - see the one on the left: http://www.mugwumps.com/Pictures/vega_b-m.gif )
I've got a banjo mandolin like the one shown on the right but it's got no maker's name on it. It needs a new fretboard and I might try fitting one. It sounds Ok and quite loud. It has a nice heavy maple hoop with a 10" head.
The Gold Tone mando-banjos I've played are nice instruments with good intonation and playability. Good tone too, definitely loud and piercing but not overly obnoxious. I own one, similar to the one linked by mbergen, and took the resonator off because it was quite loud enough without one--I can pick very gently and still be heard in a session.
It probably would also sound good set up as a 4-string, but I haven't tried that.
lots of replies. thanks for the info. i'd like to get in touch with "teetotaller", whos says he has been building them. i'm thinking of going the route of having a modern one built using quality components, if i can do so without breaking the bank. besides being a backup instrument for the tenor banjo player it would also make a good travel instrument due to its mini size. small enough to be a carry on. i would think that keeping it in tune shouldn't be any harder than keeping a mandolin in tune, assuming you use the same type of tuners as on a mandolin. at this point I'm not good enough to really want to be heard, so the loudness might be a problem. but for playing around the house that doesn't matter.
A mandolins bridge sits on a wooden body L fields, whereas the bridge on a mandolin banjo sits on the skin or vellum which is more likely to flex,sending the instrument out ot tune . . so its nothing to do with the tuners . .
Also supporting your hand on the skin whilst picking is not a good idea if you can avoid it for the same reason . . I think thats why some people have an arm rest fitted.
A word of warning.............Banjo-mandolins are hated by 99.9% of sessioneers. They might be fine in a dance band, but for the sake of your street cred, leave it at home, because thats where most people leave them.
I wouldn't go as high as 99.9%, but I understand where your at Backer . . but surely if the player is competent enough , and the instrument he's playing sounds 1/2 decent,(not all of them sound crap), and he plays it a reasonable volume, well then I can't see a problem . . after all they do or are supposed to sound like a cross between a banjo and a mandolin . .
I just think the higher tones don't work, ......I'm not sure why, but it's probably the same reason you dont see too many picolos at sessions either! Tone rings and resonators work great with the lower, mellower, first positoion banjo notes but take it up an octave and I'm not sure (?) ..........................I'm hoping to be rescued by Mike Keyes here
Youv'e made my night you have B, it sounds like YOU think I know what I'M talking about . . I can assure you now I'm far from being an authority on the subject . .
My uncle used to play a banjo-mandolin, a rotten cheap post war thing, probably very cheap and not very cheerful. I hated the bloody thing, and maybe I was mentally scarred by it. I've only seen two others in my life, and would happily go to meet my maker without ever hearing another! I think they should never have been invented, just like the rat-monster in this video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfXrzQepdY8
I'm sure there's no lesser authority than an episode of Father Ted to rule that b-m's are permissible in sessions. He walks into his local pub on Craggy Island and a session is in full swing and unless my memory is playing tricks, there's a b-m being played (the sessioneers are all Chinese, but that's beside the point). Another religious testimony: I'm sure Father O'Keefe on the Paddy in the Smoke album is playing one on Condon's Frolics - it sounds like one, anyway.
Actually having confessed to owning one, I must admit I don't like it all that much as a banjo mandolin. I bought a nice little 17 fret banjo neck recently on eBay and I'm going to see if I can match it up with the 10" pot to make a small banjo. I think that might work out quite well.
If your banjo-whatever is too loud, you could always take the resonator back off as a starter - I did this with my 5-string. If it is still too loud, which I did find, I took Pete Seeger's advice and stuffed something in the dack between the post and the skin underneath the bridge - Seeger recommended a rolled-up duster as being about the correct size.
They can be a dangerous instrument. I was playing my banjomandolin on a campsite on Skye when two elderly fellows approached me to settle their argument about whether it was a banjo or a mandolin. They were close to violence but very free with their drink.
That Condon's Frolics on Paddy In The Smoke is braw.
Has anyone seen the picture in Gerry O'Connor's banjo book it shows a lad from a past age with a banjo mandolin.
Hello there Andybanjo getting on fine with the Grafton - might have to spend more money aaagh!
Alasdair
I made a melody banjo by the simple expediency of putting four strings on my Weymann Banjo mandolin. Like any banjo style instrument, setup is all important. If you start out with a good instrument, you can get a good sound from it. My MB has a 10 3/4" head, the usual quality Weymann hardware, and a bridge that I made to a design of Red Henry (he of mandolin bridge fame.)
Played judiciously, like any banjo, they can fit in a session without too many death threats. I prefer to use mine as a melody banjo as the tone is more pleasant.
Incidentally, here is the URL for the Red Henry bridge (http://www.murphymethod.com/maplebridge.html). Scroll down to the Banjo-Mandolin bridge and see how he makes his banjo bridges. The same shape can be used for four strings. I have made a number of these bridges for my banjos and they are terrific. I am now experimenting with several variant shapes and they all seem to have some special qualities for the Irish tenor banjo.
banjolins or melody banjos
banjolins or melody banjos
Hello,
Does anyone out there play banjolins or melody banjos? I'm talking about the 4-string instrument with a banjo head and mandolin scale neck, tuned like a violin. I know they are pretty rare. I've only seen one in person. Are these considered to be good instruments, or are they inferior to the more common tenor banjo and mandolin?
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by tannisroot
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
Used to play a banjo mandolin, now play tenor banjo, mandolin, octave mandolin, resonator mandolin.
There are some horrible examples out there which will be hard to play and harder to listen to; there are also a few very fine models which will be a pleasure to play but not to pay for.
They are not meant for serenading senoritas, but will do their share in a dance band. End of story.
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by oldstrings
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
"There are some horrible examples out there which will be hard to play and harder to listen to; there are also a few very fine models which will be a pleasure to play but not to pay for.
They are not meant for serenading senoritas, but will do their share in a dance band. End of story."
<< I like how you phrased that..
My two cents: In terms of playability, intonation and tone, you really do get what you pay for. Or, rather, with a cheap one, you (and your neighbors) will notice the lack of what you *didn't* pay for that much more.
Inch-for-inch, the banjolin has to be the loudest instrument on Earth. You can almost outvoice a box. If you're going to play it in public, just make sure you know what you're doing, I have seen banjolins clear a room before (not kidding).
Most of what I've seen on eBay looks like total junk, sellers picking them up at estate auctions and trying to turn a profit. On the other hand, I've seen very nice and very playable models in used guitar shops before, usually going around the $450-$650 range, which is more than I'd ever pay. But something tells me you'd have more than usual leverage in the bargain, because it's somewhat of a novelty or specialty instrument that won't exactly be flying off the shelf.
Someone must be making present-day models, I'd give it a Google.
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by gravelwalks
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
"...usually going around the $450-$650 range, which is more than I'd ever pay."
I've just rethought this statement. It occured to me that if I was really considering a purchase, I wouldn't feel comfortable paying less than that amount for a banjolin. Anything cheaper would probably be a total disaster.
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by gravelwalks
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
I've actually been looking for one - my main instrument is my Petersen Octave Mando, and my traveling / other instrument is my Mid Missouri mandolin. I picked up a Goodtime Tenor Banjo thinking it would be fun, but after playing on it for a while, I've decided I want to swap it for a banjolin (wish me luck - any leads would be more than welcome).
Lark in the Morning has a couple, but neither looks all that good. To be honest, I just saw them online, haven't played either of them.
Elderly Instruments has a few vintage ones (from $1,000 to $2,250) and a Gold Tone MB-850 Mando-Banjo for $419, which looks very interesting (http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/MB850.htm)
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by mbergen
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
Please notice that lannyfields asks for the four string banjolin and not the more common eight string mandolin banjo!
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by lars
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
just to clarify this thread ...
the mandolin banjo has 8 strings - a really good one can be joy to play - the vast bulk of the ones that you'll see around are junk. there are now a couple of modern types available that are pretty good from the point of view of tuning stability and tone - but they are pretty heavy for their size.
the banjolin or melody banjos has 4 strings - really good vintage examples area bit hard to find but do exist. i've been building a fairly convincing modern type for some years now (sometimes referred to as a "little twangy things" on this site) which provide an extra octave to the banjo player (can be useful at multi-banjo sessions) or a less daunting alternative for the mandolin player who wants to be heard ...
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by teetotaller
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
"...the banjolin or melody banjos has 4 strings - "
4 strings? Now that just seems plain WEIRD :D
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by gravelwalks
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
I've just bought a Mandolin Banjo off ebay, 8 strings, tuned like a mandolin . . most of my friends told me don't buy one cos they are s**t . . but me being the stubborn pillock, won't listen to advise, got one anyway !
Anyway I proved them all wrong its a goodun. I agree there are a lot of band examples out there, but I dropped on a nice one.
I was a bit concerned before I bought it without playing it, but I only paid £30 for it incl. P&P, and had a local luthier do it me up for £70 . He put on a new vellum . . tailpiece . . bridge . . nut . . strings . . and it sounds great. If any ones interested its a Bell Tone, an old one. Funny can't find any information about it on the internet.
Some mando/banjos are difficult to keep in tune and this is no exception . . but if I use a digital tuner and keep tweaking it its not that much of a problem. If I were to put extra/extra light strings on it, I bet It would stay in tune much better.
It can even drowned out a 5 string banjo!
Aparrently its got a chamber/resonator thing inside which amplifies the sound and improves the tone.
I would have prefered it to sound more like a mandolin the a banjo . . but its sweet enough and has plenty of sustain.
I've certainly no regrets about buying it, and I would expect now to get twice what I paid in total for it . . SMART.
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by Justintime
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
Oh it looks nice as well . .
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by Justintime
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
Vega made one (i.e. 4 string - see the one on the left: http://www.mugwumps.com/Pictures/vega_b-m.gif )
I've got a banjo mandolin like the one shown on the right but it's got no maker's name on it. It needs a new fretboard and I might try fitting one. It sounds Ok and quite loud. It has a nice heavy maple hoop with a 10" head.
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by RichardB
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
The Gold Tone mando-banjos I've played are nice instruments with good intonation and playability. Good tone too, definitely loud and piercing but not overly obnoxious. I own one, similar to the one linked by mbergen, and took the resonator off because it was quite loud enough without one--I can pick very gently and still be heard in a session.
It probably would also sound good set up as a 4-string, but I haven't tried that.
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by tedium
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
lots of replies. thanks for the info. i'd like to get in touch with "teetotaller", whos says he has been building them. i'm thinking of going the route of having a modern one built using quality components, if i can do so without breaking the bank. besides being a backup instrument for the tenor banjo player it would also make a good travel instrument due to its mini size. small enough to be a carry on. i would think that keeping it in tune shouldn't be any harder than keeping a mandolin in tune, assuming you use the same type of tuners as on a mandolin. at this point I'm not good enough to really want to be heard, so the loudness might be a problem. but for playing around the house that doesn't matter.
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by tannisroot
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
A mandolins bridge sits on a wooden body L fields, whereas the bridge on a mandolin banjo sits on the skin or vellum which is more likely to flex,sending the instrument out ot tune . . so its nothing to do with the tuners . .
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by Justintime
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
Also supporting your hand on the skin whilst picking is not a good idea if you can avoid it for the same reason . . I think thats why some people have an arm rest fitted.
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by Justintime
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
A word of warning.............Banjo-mandolins are hated by 99.9% of sessioneers. They might be fine in a dance band, but for the sake of your street cred, leave it at home, because thats where most people leave them.
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by Backer
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
I wouldn't go as high as 99.9%, but I understand where your at Backer . . but surely if the player is competent enough , and the instrument he's playing sounds 1/2 decent,(not all of them sound crap), and he plays it a reasonable volume, well then I can't see a problem . . after all they do or are supposed to sound like a cross between a banjo and a mandolin . .
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by Justintime
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
Having just said the above though . . I wonder what percentage of sessioneers hate banjo players ?
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by Justintime
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
I just think the higher tones don't work, ......I'm not sure why, but it's probably the same reason you dont see too many picolos at sessions either! Tone rings and resonators work great with the lower, mellower, first positoion banjo notes but take it up an octave and I'm not sure (?) ..........................I'm hoping to be rescued by Mike Keyes here
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by Backer
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
Youv'e made my night you have B, it sounds like YOU think I know what I'M talking about . . I can assure you now I'm far from being an authority on the subject . .
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by Justintime
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
My uncle used to play a banjo-mandolin, a rotten cheap post war thing, probably very cheap and not very cheerful. I hated the bloody thing, and maybe I was mentally scarred by it. I've only seen two others in my life, and would happily go to meet my maker without ever hearing another! I think they should never have been invented, just like the rat-monster in this video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfXrzQepdY8
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by Backer
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
I'm sure there's no lesser authority than an episode of Father Ted to rule that b-m's are permissible in sessions. He walks into his local pub on Craggy Island and a session is in full swing and unless my memory is playing tricks, there's a b-m being played (the sessioneers are all Chinese, but that's beside the point). Another religious testimony: I'm sure Father O'Keefe on the Paddy in the Smoke album is playing one on Condon's Frolics - it sounds like one, anyway.
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by RichardB
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
Actually having confessed to owning one, I must admit I don't like it all that much as a banjo mandolin. I bought a nice little 17 fret banjo neck recently on eBay and I'm going to see if I can match it up with the 10" pot to make a small banjo. I think that might work out quite well.
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by RichardB
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
I might try and download me playing a tune on mine . . hope Jeremy doesn't find out or I might be barred off . .
# Posted on November 28th 2006 by Justintime
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
If your banjo-whatever is too loud, you could always take the resonator back off as a starter - I did this with my 5-string. If it is still too loud, which I did find, I took Pete Seeger's advice and stuffed something in the dack between the post and the skin underneath the bridge - Seeger recommended a rolled-up duster as being about the correct size.
# Posted on November 29th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
They can be a dangerous instrument. I was playing my banjomandolin on a campsite on Skye when two elderly fellows approached me to settle their argument about whether it was a banjo or a mandolin. They were close to violence but very free with their drink.
That Condon's Frolics on Paddy In The Smoke is braw.
Has anyone seen the picture in Gerry O'Connor's banjo book it shows a lad from a past age with a banjo mandolin.
Hello there Andybanjo getting on fine with the Grafton - might have to spend more money aaagh!
Alasdair
# Posted on November 29th 2006 by wodeninjun
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
I made a melody banjo by the simple expediency of putting four strings on my Weymann Banjo mandolin. Like any banjo style instrument, setup is all important. If you start out with a good instrument, you can get a good sound from it. My MB has a 10 3/4" head, the usual quality Weymann hardware, and a bridge that I made to a design of Red Henry (he of mandolin bridge fame.)
Played judiciously, like any banjo, they can fit in a session without too many death threats. I prefer to use mine as a melody banjo as the tone is more pleasant.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on November 29th 2006 by mikeyes
Re: banjolins or melody banjos
Incidentally, here is the URL for the Red Henry bridge (http://www.murphymethod.com/maplebridge.html). Scroll down to the Banjo-Mandolin bridge and see how he makes his banjo bridges. The same shape can be used for four strings. I have made a number of these bridges for my banjos and they are terrific. I am now experimenting with several variant shapes and they all seem to have some special qualities for the Irish tenor banjo.
Mike Keyes
http:///www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on November 29th 2006 by mikeyes