The band that I'm playing in is about to record an album,and one of the sets that We were thinking of recording has Sully's tune Butlers of Glen Avenue (Roaring Barmaid) in it.How can I contact Sully to ask him his permision to put his tune on our album in our arrangment?Is there an e-mail?
As long as you give him credit I doubt he'll have any problem with it. The tune already has been widely recorded and played. If any corporation or something along those lines picks up that track and uses it for something you might want to inform Tony. And of course if substantial profits are made he'll want to be compensated. But if it's just a CD of your band to sell at gigs and such it wouldn't represent enough revenue that anyone would become concerned over.
You don't need permission (though it would be polite to ask) because it's already been recorded. He has the right to compensation, though you and he may negotiate downward (or upward!) from the statutory rate, regardless of how profitable your recording is. Whether or not he is concerned about royalties is his call. Jack is only guessing what his choice might be.
Everytime I've asked a composer about being compensated for our use of their tune the answers been the same -- they only want to be credited as the composer. I think they realize that most people who aren't major touring artists are probably barely breaking even, if that, with their recording projects.
To make your recording someone ( the producer) will need a licence from the MCPS (how much you pay depends on intended usage -details from their website).
Once the details have been sent to them they will deal with the distribution of the royalties; there are appropriate rates so you don't need to haggle over the payment due to the writer/s.Of course it's a courtesy to inform the composer but it's not always possible but using the MCPS this way means permissions and fess are covered for mutual satisfaction.
ATB
Fred
I see many independently produced CDs with misnamed tunes not credited to composers, or maybe the composer's right but the name isn't, but often there's no indication of who the composer is. This has even been the case on some CDs that have a high profile. Often people have no idea what the name is let alone who composed the tune and whether they're alive or their tune is under copyright. For this reason very few if any composers are too concerned or even in a position to do anything about it. If composers chased independent artists down and demanded to be compensated and recognized it would end up being a colossal waste of time. As I already said, unless you're a major artist, just an attempt to get the correct tune title and composer in the liner notes is about all anyone expects. If you don't happen to know either of those things no one is going to come knocking at your door demanding you pay up and make it right.
GaryAMartin - have I understood you correctly from your initial post above? If a piece of music has already been recorded by someone, you do not need anyone's permission to make a recording of it yourself ? Does that refer to the permission of the composer, the copyright holder, or both ? I'm merely asking for information here, because I heard Mick Hanly say this on Radio Scotland a few months back, - [ someone had written to him asking permission to record one of his songs, and he said something like "go ahead, it's already been recorded, and I can't stop you anyway " ] - and it surprised me.
Hmm...I thought I answered Kenny's question two hours ago. I must have gotten distracted and done something else without ever hitting the "post" button. Sorry.
I believe that is correct - the composer can only deny permission to make the first commercial recording of a piece, not subsequent ones. I think that might be different if the subsequent one significantly changes the composition, but I don't know what that really means. I know someone who wrote new verses to "Would You Like To Swing On A Star" and was denied permission to record it. If it were a parody (poking fun at the original by satirizing it), they would not have been allowed to deny him permission to record, but it was simply new verses on new topics with the same melody and structure. I have no clue how this might apply to instrumental music, if at all.
When a composition/tune/song has been recorded once with the permission of the composer then anyone can record it without permission, this is why there are so many dodgy cover versions out there, composers don't have a choice whether Westlife can make a total dogs bollox of one of their songs!
If you are going to record a copyrighted tune all you have to do is register your CD with MCPS and they will calculate the royalty due to the composer based on the amount of CD's you are going to manufacture. They will then send you a bill for the royalites due. If you are not sure whether a tune is in copyright or not MCPS should be able to find out for you.
Aside from this the only time you need the composers permission to record something is if you want to change or add to the lyrics of a song or take a sample of a recording. This is where it gets sticky and can sometimes be impossible to get permission, Kate Bush for example has only ever let one group sample her music despite many people trying, but that's fair enough I think.
Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
The band that I'm playing in is about to record an album,and one of the sets that We were thinking of recording has Sully's tune Butlers of Glen Avenue (Roaring Barmaid) in it.How can I contact Sully to ask him his permision to put his tune on our album in our arrangment?Is there an e-mail?
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by HS
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
As long as you give him credit I doubt he'll have any problem with it. The tune already has been widely recorded and played. If any corporation or something along those lines picks up that track and uses it for something you might want to inform Tony. And of course if substantial profits are made he'll want to be compensated. But if it's just a CD of your band to sell at gigs and such it wouldn't represent enough revenue that anyone would become concerned over.
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
You don't need permission (though it would be polite to ask) because it's already been recorded. He has the right to compensation, though you and he may negotiate downward (or upward!) from the statutory rate, regardless of how profitable your recording is. Whether or not he is concerned about royalties is his call. Jack is only guessing what his choice might be.
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
Everytime I've asked a composer about being compensated for our use of their tune the answers been the same -- they only want to be credited as the composer. I think they realize that most people who aren't major touring artists are probably barely breaking even, if that, with their recording projects.
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
I think the copyright is with Halshaw Music
contact - sully@halshawmusic.co.uk
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by Tarrantella
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
It's Tony Sullivan, not O'Sullivan.
Dave H
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by Dave Hanson
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
To make your recording someone ( the producer) will need a licence from the MCPS (how much you pay depends on intended usage -details from their website).
Once the details have been sent to them they will deal with the distribution of the royalties; there are appropriate rates so you don't need to haggle over the payment due to the writer/s.Of course it's a courtesy to inform the composer but it's not always possible but using the MCPS this way means permissions and fess are covered for mutual satisfaction.
ATB
Fred
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by Fred Arley
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
Not fess but fees, sorry it's a bit early!
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by Fred Arley
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
"Everytime I've asked a composer about being compensated for our use of their tune the answers been the same"
Which doesn't mean you don't have to ask each and every time.
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
I see many independently produced CDs with misnamed tunes not credited to composers, or maybe the composer's right but the name isn't, but often there's no indication of who the composer is. This has even been the case on some CDs that have a high profile. Often people have no idea what the name is let alone who composed the tune and whether they're alive or their tune is under copyright. For this reason very few if any composers are too concerned or even in a position to do anything about it. If composers chased independent artists down and demanded to be compensated and recognized it would end up being a colossal waste of time. As I already said, unless you're a major artist, just an attempt to get the correct tune title and composer in the liner notes is about all anyone expects. If you don't happen to know either of those things no one is going to come knocking at your door demanding you pay up and make it right.
# Posted on October 15th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
GaryAMartin - have I understood you correctly from your initial post above? If a piece of music has already been recorded by someone, you do not need anyone's permission to make a recording of it yourself ? Does that refer to the permission of the composer, the copyright holder, or both ? I'm merely asking for information here, because I heard Mick Hanly say this on Radio Scotland a few months back, - [ someone had written to him asking permission to record one of his songs, and he said something like "go ahead, it's already been recorded, and I can't stop you anyway " ] - and it surprised me.
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by Kenny
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
PS - MikeS - "The Roaring Barmaid" and "The Butlers Of Glen Avenue" are not the same tune. For total confusion, see the comments here :
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/820
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by Kenny
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
Hmm...I thought I answered Kenny's question two hours ago. I must have gotten distracted and done something else without ever hitting the "post" button. Sorry.
I believe that is correct - the composer can only deny permission to make the first commercial recording of a piece, not subsequent ones. I think that might be different if the subsequent one significantly changes the composition, but I don't know what that really means. I know someone who wrote new verses to "Would You Like To Swing On A Star" and was denied permission to record it. If it were a parody (poking fun at the original by satirizing it), they would not have been allowed to deny him permission to record, but it was simply new verses on new topics with the same melody and structure. I have no clue how this might apply to instrumental music, if at all.
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
Thanks very much, Gary.
# Posted on October 16th 2006 by Kenny
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
I bet this is the Glen Avenue involved:
http://mc.multimap.com/cs/gb033//X15/Y16/X1502Y1619S5W700H400.gif
# Posted on October 17th 2006 by LastToFinish
Re: Copyright+Tony O'Sullivan
Just to clarify the copyright situation.
When a composition/tune/song has been recorded once with the permission of the composer then anyone can record it without permission, this is why there are so many dodgy cover versions out there, composers don't have a choice whether Westlife can make a total dogs bollox of one of their songs!
If you are going to record a copyrighted tune all you have to do is register your CD with MCPS and they will calculate the royalty due to the composer based on the amount of CD's you are going to manufacture. They will then send you a bill for the royalites due. If you are not sure whether a tune is in copyright or not MCPS should be able to find out for you.
Aside from this the only time you need the composers permission to record something is if you want to change or add to the lyrics of a song or take a sample of a recording. This is where it gets sticky and can sometimes be impossible to get permission, Kate Bush for example has only ever let one group sample her music despite many people trying, but that's fair enough I think.
Anyway, hope that clarifies things.
# Posted on October 20th 2006 by The Tune Composer