I had an interesting question from a student last week, and although I answered her I have some questions as to if I gave her enough information. I hope you can help. In most sessions I've been in there may or may not be sheet music available for the guitar player. Without sheet music, knowing what key the music is in gets me close to figuring out what other chords will work but her question was how do you know when to change chords? My answer centered mostly in saying it's more of a feeling the music is going to change and you have a 50 / 50 chance to get it right. Get it wrong and call it embellishing <snicker>. I also mentioned listening closely for the first verse and pick up where the chords change before committing herself to playing. How would you explain this?
Have a look at the later postings on the thread "modes - lydian, phrygian, locrian" in the last few days. There's some expert commentary there which might help you.
If you take a look at some common jazz progressions:
I IV V I
iii VI ii V I
etc etc etc
these can translate into any key and essentially be transferred to Irish music. For example, I IV V I in the key of C would be:
C F G C
The relative minor of C is A minor so you can also use minor chords where appropriate.
However the most important element in backing and getting the chords right is knowing the tune. If you don't know the tune the first time around, sit and listen until you can hear where the tune changes, and then you'll know where to put the chord changes. Learn which chords can substitute for others, inversions, relative minors, modes. Music theory is an important part of backing and it really helps if you have a little knowledge of it going in.
Sorry I've jumped on the theory bus with my last two posts - I'm in music school and in the middle of preparing for harmony and theory finals!
Not worth starting new thread on this, so while we're at it, anyone know where can I find a good guitar chord ITM website? Recently saw a backer's cheat sheet with 10-15 tunes on the front of a page & simply the letters of the chords underneath the tune title, can I find these online somewhere?
Also useful is the use of chord scales. These are chords and chord substitutes that go up and down the fretboard following the tune. I've had quite a good time working out tunes this way.
The first thing I would do at a session is identify (softly) on guitar what drone note seems to work with the tune. That will let me know what "key" it's in. Most Celtic music is played in a few common keys so an accompanist can be quite effective using only a handful of common chords (unlike jazz). Say a D drone works for a tune. Then it's a matter hearing if there's a major or minor tonality. For example if a D drone works and it sounds "major" a three chord trick of D, G and A will go a long way - with a G drone try G,C and D. On the other hand if the tune sounds "minor" with say an E drone, I'd opt for Em, D and Bm for starters. It's a matter of listening to the melody for chord changes with a handful of chords in mind. To get to know common keys and chord families, there's a decent tutorial book/CD called Celtic Back-Up For All Instrustmentalists by Chris Smith. I've found it to be a very good jump start.
Theory is helpful but it only goes so far. With many tunes the melody notes may imply a chord but not be the chord of choice to play as an accompanist. The main thing is to really listen to (and respect) the melody and don't tread on it. Listen to and play along with with recordings to get to know the music, and the chord patterns that go with it. Any play (discretely at first) at as many sessions as possible.
Equally important, but perhaps lost at times on some entry accompanists is play a rhythm that fits the tune. Chord choice is only half the game, and perhaps the easier half...
Learn the tunes first. I don't mean learn them so you can play along as fast as the flutes, fiddles ect. But you can't successfully stum along if you don't know he tune.
And finding a drone is not he answer either. You might be sat next to a piper and think that everything is in D.
Thanks bknjholl! Do you know of any other websites that have the chords posted for specific tunes? For instance, this is what I am talking about in terms of cheat sheets:
The Earl's Chair
Bm D Bm D A D
Bm D Bm D A D
A D A D A D A A G D G D
A D A D A D A A G D G D
So you'd have tons of tunes in this shorthand on a single sheet of paper. Anything like this on the web for specific tunes? Or with printable sheet music with chords above?
This is awful, but I am specifically looking for the guitar chords for those wacky beginners polkas, Dennis Murphy's & Sean Ryan's if anyone could be so kind as to help me out. We have our first public gig as a band on Thursday at lunchtime in the hospital cafeteria hahah, not really ready to figure out through experimentation, would rather just have the darn chords. Wish us luck anyway & thanks!!
Hot diggety Steve!!! I am in your debt!! I searched most of the links in the links section & even have this one bookmarked, don't know how I overlooked them. Thanks!!!
Questions about chording
Questions about chording
I had an interesting question from a student last week, and although I answered her I have some questions as to if I gave her enough information. I hope you can help. In most sessions I've been in there may or may not be sheet music available for the guitar player. Without sheet music, knowing what key the music is in gets me close to figuring out what other chords will work but her question was how do you know when to change chords? My answer centered mostly in saying it's more of a feeling the music is going to change and you have a 50 / 50 chance to get it right. Get it wrong and call it embellishing <snicker>. I also mentioned listening closely for the first verse and pick up where the chords change before committing herself to playing. How would you explain this?
# Posted on November 28th 2002 by jrathbun
Re: Questions about chording
Have a look at the later postings on the thread "modes - lydian, phrygian, locrian" in the last few days. There's some expert commentary there which might help you.
trevor
14:50:00
# Posted on November 29th 2002 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Questions about chording
If you take a look at some common jazz progressions:
I IV V I
iii VI ii V I
etc etc etc
these can translate into any key and essentially be transferred to Irish music. For example, I IV V I in the key of C would be:
C F G C
The relative minor of C is A minor so you can also use minor chords where appropriate.
However the most important element in backing and getting the chords right is knowing the tune. If you don't know the tune the first time around, sit and listen until you can hear where the tune changes, and then you'll know where to put the chord changes. Learn which chords can substitute for others, inversions, relative minors, modes. Music theory is an important part of backing and it really helps if you have a little knowledge of it going in.
Sorry I've jumped on the theory bus with my last two posts - I'm in music school and in the middle of preparing for harmony and theory finals!
Anyhoo, hope this helps!
Cara
# Posted on November 30th 2002 by carafiddle
Guitar chord resources please
Not worth starting new thread on this, so while we're at it, anyone know where can I find a good guitar chord ITM website? Recently saw a backer's cheat sheet with 10-15 tunes on the front of a page & simply the letters of the chords underneath the tune title, can I find these online somewhere?
Many thanks!
# Posted on November 30th 2002 by emily_bmore
Re: Questions about chording
Han's DADGAD guitar page is the best I've found. It has pdf files of all the DADGAD guitar chords.
http://home.hccnet.nl/h.speek/dadgad/dadgad.pdf
Also useful is the use of chord scales. These are chords and chord substitutes that go up and down the fretboard following the tune. I've had quite a good time working out tunes this way.
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by bknjholl
Re: Questions about chording
The first thing I would do at a session is identify (softly) on guitar what drone note seems to work with the tune. That will let me know what "key" it's in. Most Celtic music is played in a few common keys so an accompanist can be quite effective using only a handful of common chords (unlike jazz). Say a D drone works for a tune. Then it's a matter hearing if there's a major or minor tonality. For example if a D drone works and it sounds "major" a three chord trick of D, G and A will go a long way - with a G drone try G,C and D. On the other hand if the tune sounds "minor" with say an E drone, I'd opt for Em, D and Bm for starters. It's a matter of listening to the melody for chord changes with a handful of chords in mind. To get to know common keys and chord families, there's a decent tutorial book/CD called Celtic Back-Up For All Instrustmentalists by Chris Smith. I've found it to be a very good jump start.
Theory is helpful but it only goes so far. With many tunes the melody notes may imply a chord but not be the chord of choice to play as an accompanist. The main thing is to really listen to (and respect) the melody and don't tread on it. Listen to and play along with with recordings to get to know the music, and the chord patterns that go with it. Any play (discretely at first) at as many sessions as possible.
Equally important, but perhaps lost at times on some entry accompanists is play a rhythm that fits the tune. Chord choice is only half the game, and perhaps the easier half...
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by SteveM
Re: Questions about chording
Learn the tunes first. I don't mean learn them so you can play along as fast as the flutes, fiddles ect. But you can't successfully stum along if you don't know he tune.
And finding a drone is not he answer either. You might be sat next to a piper and think that everything is in D.
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Questions about chording
Thanks bknjholl! Do you know of any other websites that have the chords posted for specific tunes? For instance, this is what I am talking about in terms of cheat sheets:
The Earl's Chair
Bm D Bm D A D
Bm D Bm D A D
A D A D A D A A G D G D
A D A D A D A A G D G D
So you'd have tons of tunes in this shorthand on a single sheet of paper. Anything like this on the web for specific tunes? Or with printable sheet music with chords above?
This is awful, but I am specifically looking for the guitar chords for those wacky beginners polkas, Dennis Murphy's & Sean Ryan's if anyone could be so kind as to help me out. We have our first public gig as a band on Thursday at lunchtime in the hospital cafeteria hahah, not really ready to figure out through experimentation, would rather just have the darn chords. Wish us luck anyway & thanks!!
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by emily_bmore
Re: Questions about chording
emily_az. Try the sheet music at the Small Circle site. Much of it seems to have chords above the tune. The polkas you are looking for are there.
http://www.slowplayers.org/SCTLS/index.html
Steve
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by SteveKendall
Re: Questions about chording
Hot diggety Steve!!! I am in your debt!! I searched most of the links in the links section & even have this one bookmarked, don't know how I overlooked them. Thanks!!!
# Posted on December 1st 2002 by emily_bmore