I have been playing Mandolin now for many a year and wanted to experiment with a 19 fret Tenor Banjo so treated myself to a new one.
This turned up as expected tuned CGDA and sounds and plays fine. I have bought and fitted strings that should allow GDAE tuning but most of the strings in particular the G are about as tight as a tarts knickers and it sounds awful. As I understand it the Banjo should be tuned 1 x Octave lower than the mandolin which is what I have done. Can anybody recommend a solution to allow GDAE tuning with tighter strings or am I missing something... Thanks
P.S. I have tried 2 x different sets of strings with the same effect......?
You'll get a lot of replies I'm sure but I've got a 038 gauge string on a 19 fretter and it sounds fine. Is the head tight enough? Needs to be nice and tight (Earl Scruggs said his method was to tighten it up until it tore and then just slacken off a little)
While there are a few that can sound half good tuning down the typical tenor banjo strings from cgda to GDAE, most of the time you cannot use the same strings and expect the best sound. The only exception that I have found (and this was only on one banjo of mine) is using a set of TI banjo strings. The TI strings have more mass in spite of being .031 so they sort of work.
It is not unusual for a light weight string to sound flabby when brought down to the low G so the sound you so colorfully described is expected. The best bet is to get a set of strings that are close to .038, .026. .015, .010 or so (about the same as a mandolin or octave mandolin - tenor mandolin in UK/Ireland) and try them.
Also, you can capo up two on the standard tuning and get daeb which is the same as the three higher strings in GDAE plus the b string which makes it very easy to hit the high b notes in the tunes. Gerry O'Connor does it all the time
Lower pitched (GDAE) strings should not feel tighter than higher(CGDA). I mean no offence my friend, but you're sure you're an octave down from your mando?
I think GHS has started offering Irish tenor banjo sets for GDAE tuning in a few different gauges.
Thanks for the replies... Steve who is GHS...? and yes I am only one octave down from the mando. Matter of interest are their strings that will allow you to use the same pitch as a mando or would they be so tight as to warp the neck...?
Using a capo at the second fret in standard CGDA tuning, as Mike described, works really well. With the DAEB tuning that you thus have, you really lose nothing and you gain great access to the high B, as he says--which would otherwise be a long stretch on the E string. In GDAE, for most tunes you're only playing on the D, A, and E strings anyway, and rarely (if ever) using the G. So not having the G string in DAEB isn't much of a loss.
I have 2 banjos. One is tuned GDAE and the other, CGDA (so, I always capo up 2 on that one). Thus I'm either playing GDAE or DAEB. If I had one banjo and had to choose, I think I'd go with CGDA and the capo. Some would undoubtedly vote for GDAE and heavier-gauge strings, but I find the standard CGDA strings give a heavy enough feeling to the sound.
I just realized your "tart's knickers" reference meant that there's too little string tension...combination of US vs UK slang and posting before my morning coffee! GHS is a US based company that makes strings for guitars, banjos, mandolin family instruments, etc. A good website to check out is Elderly Instruments in Michigan, USA. (www.elderly.com). They are offering a GHS set of Irish tenor banjo strings gauged 14-24-32-42 which might work for you (You can just go to you local music store and try these gauges of singles to make up a set.) They also offer a set by the D'Addario company that I think is gauged 11-32. I tried them on my 17 fret and found them too light. Might work better on a longer scale instrument such as yours. Mike Keyes is a very knowledgable guy, so I would try his advice before you try mine.
I would not try to tune a 19 fret banjo to mandolin pitch...you might damage your banjo and/or loose an eye.
Lads.... Many thanks for the advice... I must admit that MY knickers went very slack every time the strings snapped while trying to tweak the banjo up to mando pitch!!!.
Moving from mandolin with tight strings to the much more floppy GDAE tuning on a banjo makes it uncomfortable to play. So having taken your advice & tried it I will stick with CGDA and capo2.
I bought an short scale Irish tenor banjo (Deering) with 17 frets (scale lenght: 53 cm - hey! this is not inch!) and had the same problems. After many terrible sounding string changes I'm now very satisfied using strings for the Octav-Mandolin (for example: D'Addario J80 Octave Mandolin Phos. Bronze medium (.012 .022 .032 .046 ) or GHS Phosphor bronze Octav Mandolin strings (.012 .022 .032 .044).
And the best of all: Because the Octave Mandolin uses double strings, you'll get 2 sets for the price of one!!
If your scale is longer, maybe there'll be some other instruments with the right string gauges.
Try it - it works!
GDAE as opposed to CGDA on a Banjo
GDAE as opposed to CGDA on a Banjo
Hi All,
I have been playing Mandolin now for many a year and wanted to experiment with a 19 fret Tenor Banjo so treated myself to a new one.
This turned up as expected tuned CGDA and sounds and plays fine. I have bought and fitted strings that should allow GDAE tuning but most of the strings in particular the G are about as tight as a tarts knickers and it sounds awful. As I understand it the Banjo should be tuned 1 x Octave lower than the mandolin which is what I have done. Can anybody recommend a solution to allow GDAE tuning with tighter strings or am I missing something... Thanks
P.S. I have tried 2 x different sets of strings with the same effect......?
# Posted on August 23rd 2006 by weebag
Re: GDAE as opposed to CGDA on a Banjo
You'll get a lot of replies I'm sure but I've got a 038 gauge string on a 19 fretter and it sounds fine. Is the head tight enough? Needs to be nice and tight (Earl Scruggs said his method was to tighten it up until it tore and then just slacken off a little)
# Posted on August 23rd 2006 by RichardB
Re: GDAE as opposed to CGDA on a Banjo
weebagand,
While there are a few that can sound half good tuning down the typical tenor banjo strings from cgda to GDAE, most of the time you cannot use the same strings and expect the best sound. The only exception that I have found (and this was only on one banjo of mine) is using a set of TI banjo strings. The TI strings have more mass in spite of being .031 so they sort of work.
It is not unusual for a light weight string to sound flabby when brought down to the low G so the sound you so colorfully described is expected. The best bet is to get a set of strings that are close to .038, .026. .015, .010 or so (about the same as a mandolin or octave mandolin - tenor mandolin in UK/Ireland) and try them.
Also, you can capo up two on the standard tuning and get daeb which is the same as the three higher strings in GDAE plus the b string which makes it very easy to hit the high b notes in the tunes. Gerry O'Connor does it all the time
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on August 23rd 2006 by mikeyes
Re: GDAE as opposed to CGDA on a Banjo
Lower pitched (GDAE) strings should not feel tighter than higher(CGDA). I mean no offence my friend, but you're sure you're an octave down from your mando?
I think GHS has started offering Irish tenor banjo sets for GDAE tuning in a few different gauges.
# Posted on August 24th 2006 by Steve L
Re: GDAE as opposed to CGDA on a Banjo
Thanks for the replies... Steve who is GHS...? and yes I am only one octave down from the mando. Matter of interest are their strings that will allow you to use the same pitch as a mando or would they be so tight as to warp the neck...?
Thanks again
# Posted on August 24th 2006 by weebag
Re: GDAE as opposed to CGDA on a Banjo
Then there's the other matter, about these tarts . . . .
# Posted on August 24th 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: GDAE as opposed to CGDA on a Banjo
Using a capo at the second fret in standard CGDA tuning, as Mike described, works really well. With the DAEB tuning that you thus have, you really lose nothing and you gain great access to the high B, as he says--which would otherwise be a long stretch on the E string. In GDAE, for most tunes you're only playing on the D, A, and E strings anyway, and rarely (if ever) using the G. So not having the G string in DAEB isn't much of a loss.
I have 2 banjos. One is tuned GDAE and the other, CGDA (so, I always capo up 2 on that one). Thus I'm either playing GDAE or DAEB. If I had one banjo and had to choose, I think I'd go with CGDA and the capo. Some would undoubtedly vote for GDAE and heavier-gauge strings, but I find the standard CGDA strings give a heavy enough feeling to the sound.
# Posted on August 24th 2006 by poor scholar
Re: GDAE as opposed to CGDA on a Banjo
I just realized your "tart's knickers" reference meant that there's too little string tension...combination of US vs UK slang and posting before my morning coffee! GHS is a US based company that makes strings for guitars, banjos, mandolin family instruments, etc. A good website to check out is Elderly Instruments in Michigan, USA. (www.elderly.com). They are offering a GHS set of Irish tenor banjo strings gauged 14-24-32-42 which might work for you (You can just go to you local music store and try these gauges of singles to make up a set.) They also offer a set by the D'Addario company that I think is gauged 11-32. I tried them on my 17 fret and found them too light. Might work better on a longer scale instrument such as yours. Mike Keyes is a very knowledgable guy, so I would try his advice before you try mine.
I would not try to tune a 19 fret banjo to mandolin pitch...you might damage your banjo and/or loose an eye.
# Posted on August 24th 2006 by Steve L
Re: GDAE as opposed to CGDA on a Banjo
Lads.... Many thanks for the advice... I must admit that MY knickers went very slack every time the strings snapped while trying to tweak the banjo up to mando pitch!!!.
Moving from mandolin with tight strings to the much more floppy GDAE tuning on a banjo makes it uncomfortable to play. So having taken your advice & tried it I will stick with CGDA and capo2.
Now about those knickers.............
# Posted on August 25th 2006 by weebag
Re: GDAE as opposed to CGDA on a Banjo
I bought an short scale Irish tenor banjo (Deering) with 17 frets (scale lenght: 53 cm - hey! this is not inch!) and had the same problems. After many terrible sounding string changes I'm now very satisfied using strings for the Octav-Mandolin (for example: D'Addario J80 Octave Mandolin Phos. Bronze medium (.012 .022 .032 .046 ) or GHS Phosphor bronze Octav Mandolin strings (.012 .022 .032 .044).
And the best of all: Because the Octave Mandolin uses double strings, you'll get 2 sets for the price of one!!
If your scale is longer, maybe there'll be some other instruments with the right string gauges.
Try it - it works!
haraldwilfer@aol.com
# Posted on August 27th 2006 by haraldwilfer