Is it me? or do others find it anoying when people refer to traditional music as diddley music. Traditional music has within it some wonderful tunes, songs and performers who play the music for the music, not for the fame not for the fortune. It's usual that those who refer to it as diddley music somehow feel superior or don't understand what traditional music is all about or both.
You should think of it as a nice cuddly term which is much easier to say than "Irish Traditional Music". If you can't beat them, join them. I use "Diddley" or "Diddley-eye" all the time. The music is precious, that does'nt mean we have to be ; )
although your topic has been 'done' in some previous posts i would bet this generates more,probably consisting of views like your own,daver, and some similar to backer's stance.
it does n't bother me,though;so it may indeed be you.or me.
i'm smiling,by the way,as i can already hear those virtual quills being sharpened...
It annoys me I have to say - although - when I am talking about listening to it, I refer to is as "thumpety-thump" - "You can't beat a bit of ould thumpety-thump"!! The music played by traditional artist is far superior - oh my god - in a different league - than the shite thats being turned out these days - r&b, Hip-Hop, Rap - what tripe is that?????? Always think of that when someone makes you think that they see trad as inferior
Yes this topic has been coverd before, and I beleive no disrespect is intended in the use of the term. If you think of lilting, where you don't have or play an instrument, and you just kind of go "diddley-eye diddly-um , etc." to get the tune across, then you can see where the term comes from.
Personally, I do prefer to say Traditional Irish Music. More people in my part of the world will understand that term better, although most will just envision "Danny Boy" and like.
As a funny aside, my best friend, not being at all Irish (neither am I) told her uncle that she played Traditional Irish Music, and he replied, "So what's wrong with Traditional *Jewish* Music?"
Because I never voted before - here goes. I feel that "diddley" berates what we do and enjoy. It's been discussed to the max and I have looked at both sides. I have now been swayed. Ahh well - back to work. You know - Piddley Work.
Backer, I personally find calling it "diddly" music rather twee, much more so than any other 'precious' term like 'Irish traditional music.' I don't particularly find the music or the tradition to be 'cuddly' or 'cute', I guess.
I don't actually find it all that annoying a term -- the way people use a word is what's annoying, not the term itself.
I wasn't actually speaking to any particular situation or person, Michael, but whatever floats your boat. I was actually thinking of Terry Pratchett writing that some people can make the word "soap" sound dirty.
Uh I'm going on record as opposing the idea that rap, hip-hop & r&b are 'tripe'. So sorry you feel that way. I think much of those genres express both the pain & glory of the African American culture as much as ITM does for the famine or the fight against the crown. Just b/c you aren't immersed in the drug-ridden violence from which much of that music sprang, doesn't discredit it as a powerful, powerful form of music. Perhaps I am an African American, in which case I would be duly offended by that comment. To call ITM 'superior' is in my humble opinion, snobby, & only feeds the prejudice which separates rather than brings together. I think there is infinitely more similarity between the African American culture & the Irish than differences. To paraphrase from the movie 'The Commitments' -- 'The Irish are the blacks of Europe, Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland, & (south?) Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin. Who better to perform soul music than us?' (hope I'm remembering this correctly)
PS I like the idea of 'diddly' music-- it speaks of lilting when music wasn't allowed, it also reminds us not to take ourselves so seriously. My $.02.
I find the abbreviation 'ITM' rather distasteful - reducing beautiful music to something indicative of the shallow, mechanical world which, through it, we strive to escape from. But, grudgingly, I use it when posting to The Session to save time and effort. Does that make me two faced? Or two fingered?
In circles where people know what I am talking about, I refer to it as 'traditional' music, 'trad' or sometimes 'jigs and reels' (which, of course, includes hornpipes, polkas, flings and fandanguillos). In less enlightened circles I might refer to it as 'Irish' music or, if I'm feeling pompous, 'Irish Traditional Music', or even 'Irish Traditional Dance Music'. I might occasionally resort to the use of terms such as 'diddley' to make clear the distinction between it and Clannad or Daniel O'Donnell. But I have heard some fine exponents of the music use such words - invariably with more than a hint of habitual irony, perhaps partly self-deprecatory, partly at the expense of those people who view the music as something to be ridiculed.
Just for the record, since we are on a similar topic, I'd like to say that MY sensibilities are greatly offended when people refer to me by my name 'Kevin' in this forum! Clearly, my handle here is 'Caoimghgin', as it says beneath each of my posts! I am especially incensed when people take my existing handle and shorten it for their convenience. 'Cao', or more egregiously, 'C' with perhaps a dash after it. Are people here not familiar with the use of their keyboards! Could they not copy and paste?? I find these shortened uses of my online handle to be demeaning and tripe and I feel it denotes a lack of proper respect!
I always remember hearing a story -- I've never been able to verify it -- that Cromwell or someone once referred publicly to Irish music as "rubbish," and that, in the characteristically contrary ways of the Irish spirit, the practitioners of that music rather joyously, ironically and affectionately adopted the term themselves.
Has anyone ever heard this? Has anyone every heard anyone call the stuff "rubbish" and obviously not mean it?
In any case, I hope it's true. It makes me like it even more.
Well Kev, I shall strive in future not to offend your sensibilities, heh, but all those consecutive vowels followed by consecutive consonants is a bit daunting to type out correctly. ;)
Additionally, I shall be looking into various local Navajo tripe recipes for the holidays, feel free to contact me if it sounds appetizing. Ha!
It was North siders are the blacks of dublin - not southsiders! Anyhow who cares what its called as long as we all have fun playing it. I call it diddley - so what??I dont see why that should be taken as being offensive.
Emily I dont believe that hip hop and trad have anything similar about them. The fight against the crown?? bollocks - sorry but eveyone I know who plays trad does not think of it as a fight against the crown! I quite like some hip hop and rap tho. I think all music (except techno) has something good about it. Doesnt mean I want to listen to it tho!
I think, on a little consideration, that I like calling it diddley music. Easy to say, indicative of what it sounds like, has a nice free and easy ring that suits a style that often gets practiced in pubs. Two thumbs up from me.
bb, thank you for the correction! I couldn't remember which side of Dublin he mentioned which is why I put it in parentheses. Also a clarification, I didn't mean diddley music IS a fight against the crown, I simply meant there are many fighting songs in the tradition, ie Roddy McCorley, Foggy Dew, etc, but again, please correct me if I am in error as a dumb Yank.
OK since I am feeling contrarian today, & I like a challenge, I will now set out to describe why I feel African American music is very similar to Irish. Hold on, I don't know where this is going, but here goes. (I should preface this by saying I am of Irish descent, but lived much of my life in inner city, predominantly black Baltimore, which is where I am pulling my info from.)
OK, first, AA music comes from a culture of struggle. African slaves were not allowed to read, write, vote or speak their own language. Their music was a music of the people, of informal gatherings to celebrate their culture, families & homeland. It was primarily dance music, but then you also have the blues & gospel, blues detailing the woes of life, gospel celebrating how we will get through with the grace of God. It was not erudite music, but music to uplift & express the soul & bring ppl together. Sound familiar so far?
I think next you have to look at the prominent themes of resistance. Can we say both the Black Panthers & the IRA are armed military groups seeking justice? Many songs in both traditions are about fighting oppression & unjust authority, broken families as fathers, brothers & sons go off to fight, whether against the Brits or against gangs. There is a huge commonality of the soldier mentality, honor, etc where 'criminals' are lifted up to the rank of hero. I think of Fields of Athenry where he goes to the prison ship, leaving his family behind. Also, King's Highway where he robs the wealthy to help his family, only to be caught by that cursed crew, themes often seen in AA music. There are tons of examples I won't go into here, but check out anything by Stevie Wonder from the 70s, or De La Soul in the 90s.
I think we also need to look at substance abuse, whether alcohol or drugs which has destroyed many black families as well as Irish, but I am again looking at the musical influences, both songs & tunes that look at the joys of being drunk or high, as well as the devastating effects on family, friends & society as a whole.
Finally both Irish & African American cultures are among the warmest, most hospitable, yes I suppose the French & Chinese & Peruvian etc will also vye for recognition in this area, but like the Tibetans, the African American communities like the Irish have struggled to keep their cultural identity alive in the face of often tyrannical oppressors, & have done so largely through music. What do you think, am I way off base here?
A side note, is that yes, much of today's rap is extreme & toxic, promoting violence & false images of mainstream AA communities, as I would venture to say, many ppl believe most Irish families stepdance around the fire at night a la Riverdance. Yes angry, inflammatory rap is no fun to listen to, & its effect on youth in a hero worship society can be devastating. However, much of contemporary African American music is enormously uplifting, joyous & inspirational. I urge you not to dismiss it out of hand b/c of a few highly visible gangstas.
You make good points emily - but everything you just said can be related to almost every kind of traditional music in the world. Most countries and cultures have been taken over at some stage and not allowed to play their own music or speak their own language. I wouldnt have thought that hip hop had anything in common with trad, I would say there are loads of other types of music more closely related, being, north american indian, the cultures of south america, Aboriginals in australia, eastern european etc etc. Like I said before I quite like rap and hip hop for the exact reason that its nothing like the music I play every day.
Yes good points bb thank you, it was a stretch at best, thanks for indulging me. *grin* I live among the Navajo, & do find occasional similarities in their music to ITM, but not nearly as much of the resistance factor or bitterness you would expect, in fact virtually none. They are inordinately fond of country western & rap as well as heavy metal in the gangs, but most of their 'traditional' music is strictly for religious ceremonies, & bears more resemblance to techno-tribal than ITM, emphasis on the drumbeat, immaculate structure & repetition rather than ad libbing with new tunes. They are quite the sticklers for no deviation in that way, but I can't speak for other tribes obviously. Would be interested to hear about the Aboriginal trad music at some point.
Sorry I didnt mean it like that - while I know there are some songs in the tradition that are rebel songs etc I only play tunes, I listen to tunes and go to non singing sessions, so I was only refering to the tunes part which arent angry (maybe sad sometimes). The Aboriginal tradition is more kind of tribal as well, didges and the likes.
Just a wee aside. When I was a child music contests in places like Dundee, which had a strong tradition of it, had sections for diddlers. Diddling was and probably still is a recognised musical genre related to other forms of "mouth music".
I fail to see where diddling in my local boozer of an evening relates to resistance and justice.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the historical musicologist's efforts. And I appreciate that without those ancients, pioneering against resistance and injustice, I might not have my freedom to diddle of an evening. But diddling is just diddling
Well, the thread having binged from one extreme side to the other extreme side...it's worth remembering that the music is both only music (and so may simply be enjoyed for what it is however it is), but that it has a strong tradition behind it as well, as well as possible standards and expectations. Both things are valuable, and no reason to blow either thing off, nor to take either (or any) thing so to heart that you lose a sense of humor and proportion.
Zina--good point; I was just thinking something like that. This past Sunday, I had the great priveledge to attend a workshop with Kevin Crehan, the grandson the the late Junior Crehan. He has spent many years steeping himself in his grandfather's music and the music of West Clare, realizing that the richness of regional styles is disappearing. He is sontinuing the tradition which started with his great-great-great-etc. grandfather who got one of the first fiddles that came to Ireland in the mid 1700-s.
There was so much respect, love, passion, and humour in the tunes Kevin played for us--and with stories for how he or his grandfather got many of the tunes.
I would have liked to have asked him about how he would have felt about the term diddley music. Maybe he wouldn't have minded. I don't know.
*sigh* I see my attempt at political satire has failed miserably!
I'll just go home and have another hot steaming bowl of tripe. They call that 'Menudo' down here and it's a sure-fire hangover cure, though I've never had the stomach for it. (heh, heh).
Scot's, like me, will be familiar with "houchty tchouchty" music, cajun fiends get "chank-a-chank", classical pianists, "plonky" music.
I don't think "diddly" is so bad!
What do you think, C?
The overly sensitive among you regarding the term diddley [or in my part of the world diddley dee] appear to come from places other than Ireland. Here in the good old emerald isle the term is very much one of affection and is used by many musicians themselves to describe their music.
Lilting is also still a strong tradition in many areas and there is still a competition for it at the CCÉ fleadh competitions. Diddley dee is simply an onomatopoeic description of what is going on.
Perfectly legitimate and a term that we should be proud of!!
If you think the term diddely music is bad,try this one for size.I am formerly from Northern Ireland where I've actually heard it described as 'whiny catholic music'. Makes diddely sound quite sophisticated,dosent it.
In the '80's the English folk-and-related mag "Folk Roots" was preoccupied with inventing "English Roots Music" (by, among other things, hyping wacky bands and slagging off the English Folk Dance And Song Society at every opportunity). It gave coverage to Irish bands and individuals in good articles, but evidently had the odd correspondent of the "Celtic Menace" persuasion - or who, at any rate, reviewing a festival, would write something like:-
"I went through the back lounge of the (Frog & Bunion) where they were playing the Irish tune all over again..."
Diddley Music !?
Diddley Music !?
Is it me? or do others find it anoying when people refer to traditional music as diddley music. Traditional music has within it some wonderful tunes, songs and performers who play the music for the music, not for the fame not for the fortune. It's usual that those who refer to it as diddley music somehow feel superior or don't understand what traditional music is all about or both.
# Posted on November 17th 2002 by Daver
Re: Diddley Music !?
You should think of it as a nice cuddly term which is much easier to say than "Irish Traditional Music". If you can't beat them, join them. I use "Diddley" or "Diddley-eye" all the time. The music is precious, that does'nt mean we have to be ; )
# Posted on November 17th 2002 by Backer
Re: regrets? - you'll have a few!
although your topic has been 'done' in some previous posts i would bet this generates more,probably consisting of views like your own,daver, and some similar to backer's stance.
it does n't bother me,though;so it may indeed be you.or me.
i'm smiling,by the way,as i can already hear those virtual quills being sharpened...
# Posted on November 17th 2002 by biggus dave
Re: Diddley Music !?
It annoys me I have to say - although - when I am talking about listening to it, I refer to is as "thumpety-thump" - "You can't beat a bit of ould thumpety-thump"!! The music played by traditional artist is far superior - oh my god - in a different league - than the shite thats being turned out these days - r&b, Hip-Hop, Rap - what tripe is that?????? Always think of that when someone makes you think that they see trad as inferior
# Posted on November 17th 2002 by Edja
Re: Diddley Music !?
Yes this topic has been coverd before, and I beleive no disrespect is intended in the use of the term. If you think of lilting, where you don't have or play an instrument, and you just kind of go "diddley-eye diddly-um , etc." to get the tune across, then you can see where the term comes from.
Personally, I do prefer to say Traditional Irish Music. More people in my part of the world will understand that term better, although most will just envision "Danny Boy" and like.
As a funny aside, my best friend, not being at all Irish (neither am I) told her uncle that she played Traditional Irish Music, and he replied, "So what's wrong with Traditional *Jewish* Music?"
# Posted on November 17th 2002 by Andee
Re: Diddley Music !?
Because I never voted before - here goes. I feel that "diddley" berates what we do and enjoy. It's been discussed to the max and I have looked at both sides. I have now been swayed. Ahh well - back to work. You know - Piddley Work.
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by Mark Cordova
Re: Diddley Music !?
Backer, I personally find calling it "diddly" music rather twee, much more so than any other 'precious' term like 'Irish traditional music.' I don't particularly find the music or the tradition to be 'cuddly' or 'cute', I guess.
I don't actually find it all that annoying a term -- the way people use a word is what's annoying, not the term itself.
zls
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Diddley Music !?
I'm, keeping out of this one.
Eccept to say that I'm glad it's me that Zina finds annoying, and not the term itself
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Diddley Music !?
I wasn't actually speaking to any particular situation or person, Michael, but whatever floats your boat.
I was actually thinking of Terry Pratchett writing that some people can make the word "soap" sound dirty.
Zina
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Diddley Music !?
Uh I'm going on record as opposing the idea that rap, hip-hop & r&b are 'tripe'. So sorry you feel that way. I think much of those genres express both the pain & glory of the African American culture as much as ITM does for the famine or the fight against the crown. Just b/c you aren't immersed in the drug-ridden violence from which much of that music sprang, doesn't discredit it as a powerful, powerful form of music. Perhaps I am an African American, in which case I would be duly offended by that comment. To call ITM 'superior' is in my humble opinion, snobby, & only feeds the prejudice which separates rather than brings together. I think there is infinitely more similarity between the African American culture & the Irish than differences. To paraphrase from the movie 'The Commitments' -- 'The Irish are the blacks of Europe, Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland, & (south?) Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin. Who better to perform soul music than us?' (hope I'm remembering this correctly)
PS I like the idea of 'diddly' music-- it speaks of lilting when music wasn't allowed, it also reminds us not to take ourselves so seriously. My $.02.
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by emily_bmore
Re: Diddley Music !?
I find the abbreviation 'ITM' rather distasteful - reducing beautiful music to something indicative of the shallow, mechanical world which, through it, we strive to escape from. But, grudgingly, I use it when posting to The Session to save time and effort. Does that make me two faced? Or two fingered?
In circles where people know what I am talking about, I refer to it as 'traditional' music, 'trad' or sometimes 'jigs and reels' (which, of course, includes hornpipes, polkas, flings and fandanguillos). In less enlightened circles I might refer to it as 'Irish' music or, if I'm feeling pompous, 'Irish Traditional Music', or even 'Irish Traditional Dance Music'. I might occasionally resort to the use of terms such as 'diddley' to make clear the distinction between it and Clannad or Daniel O'Donnell. But I have heard some fine exponents of the music use such words - invariably with more than a hint of habitual irony, perhaps partly self-deprecatory, partly at the expense of those people who view the music as something to be ridiculed.
Anyway, as a tune was once heard to say,
"Sticks and Stones may break my bones....".
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Diddley Music !?
Just for the record, since we are on a similar topic, I'd like to say that MY sensibilities are greatly offended when people refer to me by my name 'Kevin' in this forum! Clearly, my handle here is 'Caoimghgin', as it says beneath each of my posts! I am especially incensed when people take my existing handle and shorten it for their convenience. 'Cao', or more egregiously, 'C' with perhaps a dash after it. Are people here not familiar with the use of their keyboards! Could they not copy and paste?? I find these shortened uses of my online handle to be demeaning and tripe and I feel it denotes a lack of proper respect!
(is anyone getting the joke here?)
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Diddley Music !?
Isn't tripe a just a fancy word designed to trick people into eating cow stomachs?
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Diddley Music !?
I always remember hearing a story -- I've never been able to verify it -- that Cromwell or someone once referred publicly to Irish music as "rubbish," and that, in the characteristically contrary ways of the Irish spirit, the practitioners of that music rather joyously, ironically and affectionately adopted the term themselves.
Has anyone ever heard this? Has anyone every heard anyone call the stuff "rubbish" and obviously not mean it?
In any case, I hope it's true. It makes me like it even more.
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by cuchulain54
Re: Diddley Music !?
Well Kev, I shall strive in future not to offend your sensibilities, heh, but all those consecutive vowels followed by consecutive consonants is a bit daunting to type out correctly. ;)
Additionally, I shall be looking into various local Navajo tripe recipes for the holidays, feel free to contact me if it sounds appetizing. Ha!
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by emily_bmore
Re: Diddley Music !?
It was North siders are the blacks of dublin - not southsiders! Anyhow who cares what its called as long as we all have fun playing it. I call it diddley - so what??I dont see why that should be taken as being offensive.
Emily I dont believe that hip hop and trad have anything similar about them. The fight against the crown?? bollocks - sorry but eveyone I know who plays trad does not think of it as a fight against the crown! I quite like some hip hop and rap tho. I think all music (except techno) has something good about it. Doesnt mean I want to listen to it tho!
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by bb
Re: Diddley Music !?
I think, on a little consideration, that I like calling it diddley music. Easy to say, indicative of what it sounds like, has a nice free and easy ring that suits a style that often gets practiced in pubs. Two thumbs up from me.
Cat
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by cat
Re: Diddley Music !?
bb, thank you for the correction! I couldn't remember which side of Dublin he mentioned which is why I put it in parentheses. Also a clarification, I didn't mean diddley music IS a fight against the crown, I simply meant there are many fighting songs in the tradition, ie Roddy McCorley, Foggy Dew, etc, but again, please correct me if I am in error as a dumb Yank.
OK since I am feeling contrarian today, & I like a challenge, I will now set out to describe why I feel African American music is very similar to Irish. Hold on, I don't know where this is going, but here goes. (I should preface this by saying I am of Irish descent, but lived much of my life in inner city, predominantly black Baltimore, which is where I am pulling my info from.)
OK, first, AA music comes from a culture of struggle. African slaves were not allowed to read, write, vote or speak their own language. Their music was a music of the people, of informal gatherings to celebrate their culture, families & homeland. It was primarily dance music, but then you also have the blues & gospel, blues detailing the woes of life, gospel celebrating how we will get through with the grace of God. It was not erudite music, but music to uplift & express the soul & bring ppl together. Sound familiar so far?
I think next you have to look at the prominent themes of resistance. Can we say both the Black Panthers & the IRA are armed military groups seeking justice? Many songs in both traditions are about fighting oppression & unjust authority, broken families as fathers, brothers & sons go off to fight, whether against the Brits or against gangs. There is a huge commonality of the soldier mentality, honor, etc where 'criminals' are lifted up to the rank of hero. I think of Fields of Athenry where he goes to the prison ship, leaving his family behind. Also, King's Highway where he robs the wealthy to help his family, only to be caught by that cursed crew, themes often seen in AA music. There are tons of examples I won't go into here, but check out anything by Stevie Wonder from the 70s, or De La Soul in the 90s.
I think we also need to look at substance abuse, whether alcohol or drugs which has destroyed many black families as well as Irish, but I am again looking at the musical influences, both songs & tunes that look at the joys of being drunk or high, as well as the devastating effects on family, friends & society as a whole.
Finally both Irish & African American cultures are among the warmest, most hospitable, yes I suppose the French & Chinese & Peruvian etc will also vye for recognition in this area, but like the Tibetans, the African American communities like the Irish have struggled to keep their cultural identity alive in the face of often tyrannical oppressors, & have done so largely through music. What do you think, am I way off base here?
A side note, is that yes, much of today's rap is extreme & toxic, promoting violence & false images of mainstream AA communities, as I would venture to say, many ppl believe most Irish families stepdance around the fire at night a la Riverdance. Yes angry, inflammatory rap is no fun to listen to, & its effect on youth in a hero worship society can be devastating. However, much of contemporary African American music is enormously uplifting, joyous & inspirational. I urge you not to dismiss it out of hand b/c of a few highly visible gangstas.
Looking forward to feedback.
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by emily_bmore
Re: Diddley Music !?
You make good points emily - but everything you just said can be related to almost every kind of traditional music in the world. Most countries and cultures have been taken over at some stage and not allowed to play their own music or speak their own language. I wouldnt have thought that hip hop had anything in common with trad, I would say there are loads of other types of music more closely related, being, north american indian, the cultures of south america, Aboriginals in australia, eastern european etc etc. Like I said before I quite like rap and hip hop for the exact reason that its nothing like the music I play every day.
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by bb
Re: Diddley Music !?
Yes good points bb thank you, it was a stretch at best, thanks for indulging me. *grin* I live among the Navajo, & do find occasional similarities in their music to ITM, but not nearly as much of the resistance factor or bitterness you would expect, in fact virtually none. They are inordinately fond of country western & rap as well as heavy metal in the gangs, but most of their 'traditional' music is strictly for religious ceremonies, & bears more resemblance to techno-tribal than ITM, emphasis on the drumbeat, immaculate structure & repetition rather than ad libbing with new tunes. They are quite the sticklers for no deviation in that way, but I can't speak for other tribes obviously. Would be interested to hear about the Aboriginal trad music at some point.
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by emily_bmore
Re: Diddley Music !?
Sorry I didnt mean it like that - while I know there are some songs in the tradition that are rebel songs etc I only play tunes, I listen to tunes and go to non singing sessions, so I was only refering to the tunes part which arent angry (maybe sad sometimes). The Aboriginal tradition is more kind of tribal as well, didges and the likes.
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by bb
Re: Diddley Music !?
Just a wee aside. When I was a child music contests in places like Dundee, which had a strong tradition of it, had sections for diddlers. Diddling was and probably still is a recognised musical genre related to other forms of "mouth music".
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by Davetnova
Re: Diddley Music !?
I fail to see where diddling in my local boozer of an evening relates to resistance and justice.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the historical musicologist's efforts. And I appreciate that without those ancients, pioneering against resistance and injustice, I might not have my freedom to diddle of an evening. But diddling is just diddling
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Diddley Music !?
That just about sums it up for me Michael.
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by Backer
Re: Diddley Music !?
Well, the thread having binged from one extreme side to the other extreme side...it's worth remembering that the music is both only music (and so may simply be enjoyed for what it is however it is), but that it has a strong tradition behind it as well, as well as possible standards and expectations. Both things are valuable, and no reason to blow either thing off, nor to take either (or any) thing so to heart that you lose a sense of humor and proportion.
Zina
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Diddley Music !?
Zina--good point; I was just thinking something like that. This past Sunday, I had the great priveledge to attend a workshop with Kevin Crehan, the grandson the the late Junior Crehan. He has spent many years steeping himself in his grandfather's music and the music of West Clare, realizing that the richness of regional styles is disappearing. He is sontinuing the tradition which started with his great-great-great-etc. grandfather who got one of the first fiddles that came to Ireland in the mid 1700-s.
There was so much respect, love, passion, and humour in the tunes Kevin played for us--and with stories for how he or his grandfather got many of the tunes.
I would have liked to have asked him about how he would have felt about the term diddley music. Maybe he wouldn't have minded. I don't know.
# Posted on November 18th 2002 by Andee
Re: Diddley Music !?
*sigh* I see my attempt at political satire has failed miserably!
I'll just go home and have another hot steaming bowl of tripe. They call that 'Menudo' down here and it's a sure-fire hangover cure, though I've never had the stomach for it. (heh, heh).
# Posted on November 19th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Diddley Music !?
Scot's, like me, will be familiar with "houchty tchouchty" music, cajun fiends get "chank-a-chank", classical pianists, "plonky" music.
I don't think "diddly" is so bad!
What do you think, C?
# Posted on November 19th 2002 by Kenn
Re: Diddley Music !?
nice!
# Posted on November 19th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Diddley Music !?
The overly sensitive among you regarding the term diddley [or in my part of the world diddley dee] appear to come from places other than Ireland. Here in the good old emerald isle the term is very much one of affection and is used by many musicians themselves to describe their music.
Lilting is also still a strong tradition in many areas and there is still a competition for it at the CCÉ fleadh competitions. Diddley dee is simply an onomatopoeic description of what is going on.
Perfectly legitimate and a term that we should be proud of!!
# Posted on November 24th 2002 by breandan
Re: Diddley Music !?
Breandan
Same goes in Scotland
# Posted on November 25th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Diddley Music !?
If you think the term diddely music is bad,try this one for size.I am formerly from Northern Ireland where I've actually heard it described as 'whiny catholic music'. Makes diddely sound quite sophisticated,dosent it.
# Posted on November 26th 2002 by Musicofireland
Re: Diddley Music !? No, it's "The Irish Tune!"
In the '80's the English folk-and-related mag "Folk Roots" was preoccupied with inventing "English Roots Music" (by, among other things, hyping wacky bands and slagging off the English Folk Dance And Song Society at every opportunity). It gave coverage to Irish bands and individuals in good articles, but evidently had the odd correspondent of the "Celtic Menace" persuasion - or who, at any rate, reviewing a festival, would write something like:-
"I went through the back lounge of the (Frog & Bunion) where they were playing the Irish tune all over again..."
(Oh dear: perhaps they weren't all that good...)
# Posted on September 4th 2006 by nicholas