Question... is this (Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor )a popular medly? I had never even hear of these tunes and wondered if anyone else had. I heard this set the otherday and I really liked it.
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
I'm coming from OldTime stuff and just got bit by the "Irish fiddle" bug. I know we play Little Beggarman" all the time, but we go by the name "Red Haired Boy". I'll have to check out the other two.
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Handsome Molly is a song. Mike Seeger among others recorded in the 70's
Wished i was in London
Or some other seaport town
Set myself on sailing ship
and sail the wide round...etc
As is Little Beggarman (same tune as RedHaired Boy) Clancy Bros. put thiis one on an LP as early as the late sixties as I recall.
I am a little begger and a begger I have been
for four score or more on this little isle of green
I'm known from the Liffey down to Silgo
and I'm know by the name of Bold Johnny Dew...etc
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Hmm...cool. I just thought they were tunes that someone had made into songs, not the other way around (which is how I heard the Handsome Molly and Little Beggarman).
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Yes, they ARE tunes which have been used for one or more songs! Although I also learned first Little Beggarman, and played it in G for years before realizing it was much better in A as a tune.
Try it with Napoleon Crossing the Alps AKA Hot Asphalt, Mick Maguire, etc.
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
I've known of The Little Beggarman (song and Red-Haired-Boy tune) and Handsome Molly almost my whole life (I'm pushing 60), but I never heard Handsome Molly to the Red-Haired-Boy tune. I'm sure there are at least three other things I've never heard.
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
The Red-Haired Boy tune appears in the 18th century as the tune for the 17th century (and later) Scottish broadside ballad Gilderoy, the title being a corruption of the Gaelic "gille ruadh" or red [haired] boy/youth. The early ballads refer to one or more historical red-haired juvenile delinquents, but not Rob Roy McGregor, whom they predate. In the 1690 version, he seems to be a good-looking, stylishly dressed 15 or 16 year old, whose clueless fiancee just doesn't understand why he should be hanged for robbing people just because, like, it's the law, 'cause he's so-o-o good looking: http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/lpop/etext/newgate/app1-2.htm
There is a midi of an early Gilderoy tune here, and you can hear the resemblance: http://www.contemplator.com/scotland/gilderoy.html
Basically the same tune, but in a different mode. I play an 18th century version as a harp air, sometimes medleyed with King of the Fairies and/or Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine. I've heard the Red Haired Boy and Gilderoy versions medleyed, too, in that order, but if I were doing it, I'd think I'd do Gilderoy first, then the faster Red Haired Boy.
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Wow, that's cool to get some history on the tunes. While I'm talking about it, is there a book or something that has the history behind some of the tunes? I would love to read up on them and find out more. Any info on this?
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Sorry, Irish, but you won't find *all the facts together* in any one book, but there are several books that will give you an overview, and from which you can track down other printed sources of information. Lots and lots of printed material. Keep in mind that many web sites include bibliographies and other resource listing that will also point you in the direction of printed materials.
Some books to start out with:
Samuel Bayard, Dance to the Fiddle, March to the Fife (discusses American versions)
George Farqhar Graham, The Songs of Scotland
John Purser, Scotland’s Music
Claude Simpson, The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music
Robin Williamson, liner notes to Legacy of the Scottish Harpers, Vol. 1 (well, not a book, but it is printed, and you can hold it in your hands)
You'll notice I don't include any books on *Irish* traditional music, which is a peculiarity of my own research on the tune. I guess that means I'll be doing some more research -- unless someone else has already done in wants to post their sources (hint hint).
A book it ain’t, but the Bodleian Library web site is good enough for me. Here may be found several broadsides of Gilderoy (type gilderoy into the search function): http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ballads/ballads.htm
Some or all of these may be reprinted in a book or two, but printing off the facsimiles from this site is much more convenient.
From the “why re-invent the wheel department”. The late Bruce Olson was a tireless researcher of early traditional ballads (16-18c), and his web page is an invaluable resource. This is a wonder site to explore. Doing the research that is reflected in this site, Bruce held in his hand books you and I may never see. Some of the links to other sites are broken, but I’ve been able to find them by googling. http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/Olson/
Gilderoy seems to have been one of the Top 40 18th century ballad tunes, and it appears in countless collections (including an arrangement by Franz Joseph Haydn, who arranged quite a few (mostly) Scottish, Irish and Welsh tunes and songs.
Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Question... is this (Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor )a popular medly? I had never even hear of these tunes and wondered if anyone else had. I heard this set the otherday and I really liked it.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by irishfiddler
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
I'm coming from OldTime stuff and just got bit by the "Irish fiddle" bug. I know we play Little Beggarman" all the time, but we go by the name "Red Haired Boy". I'll have to check out the other two.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by nofrets
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Handsome Molly is a song. Mike Seeger among others recorded in the 70's
Wished i was in London
Or some other seaport town
Set myself on sailing ship
and sail the wide round...etc
As is Little Beggarman (same tune as RedHaired Boy) Clancy Bros. put thiis one on an LP as early as the late sixties as I recall.
I am a little begger and a begger I have been
for four score or more on this little isle of green
I'm known from the Liffey down to Silgo
and I'm know by the name of Bold Johnny Dew...etc
don't know about Mist on the Moor
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by ratbiscuit
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Hmm...cool. I just thought they were tunes that someone had made into songs, not the other way around (which is how I heard the Handsome Molly and Little Beggarman).
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by irishfiddler
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Yes, they ARE tunes which have been used for one or more songs! Although I also learned first Little Beggarman, and played it in G for years before realizing it was much better in A as a tune.
Try it with Napoleon Crossing the Alps AKA Hot Asphalt, Mick Maguire, etc.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by oldstrings
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
I also know Little Beggerman as "The Redhaired Boy". I was told it was of Scottish origen, but could be wrong.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Shrog
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
I've known of The Little Beggarman (song and Red-Haired-Boy tune) and Handsome Molly almost my whole life (I'm pushing 60), but I never heard Handsome Molly to the Red-Haired-Boy tune. I'm sure there are at least three other things I've never heard.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
The Red-Haired Boy tune appears in the 18th century as the tune for the 17th century (and later) Scottish broadside ballad Gilderoy, the title being a corruption of the Gaelic "gille ruadh" or red [haired] boy/youth. The early ballads refer to one or more historical red-haired juvenile delinquents, but not Rob Roy McGregor, whom they predate. In the 1690 version, he seems to be a good-looking, stylishly dressed 15 or 16 year old, whose clueless fiancee just doesn't understand why he should be hanged for robbing people just because, like, it's the law, 'cause he's so-o-o good looking:
http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/lpop/etext/newgate/app1-2.htm
There is a midi of an early Gilderoy tune here, and you can hear the resemblance:
http://www.contemplator.com/scotland/gilderoy.html
Basically the same tune, but in a different mode. I play an 18th century version as a harp air, sometimes medleyed with King of the Fairies and/or Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine. I've heard the Red Haired Boy and Gilderoy versions medleyed, too, in that order, but if I were doing it, I'd think I'd do Gilderoy first, then the faster Red Haired Boy.
# Posted on July 1st 2006 by Tracie
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Wow, that's cool to get some history on the tunes. While I'm talking about it, is there a book or something that has the history behind some of the tunes? I would love to read up on them and find out more. Any info on this?
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by irishfiddler
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Google is your friend, irishfiddler.
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
I know, I adore Google, but I want a good read and I want all the facts together in something you can hold in your hands, they call it a book.
# Posted on July 2nd 2006 by irishfiddler
Re: Handsome Molly/Little Beggerman/Mist on the Moor?
Sorry, Irish, but you won't find *all the facts together* in any one book, but there are several books that will give you an overview, and from which you can track down other printed sources of information. Lots and lots of printed material. Keep in mind that many web sites include bibliographies and other resource listing that will also point you in the direction of printed materials.
Some books to start out with:
Samuel Bayard, Dance to the Fiddle, March to the Fife (discusses American versions)
George Farqhar Graham, The Songs of Scotland
John Purser, Scotland’s Music
Claude Simpson, The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music
Robin Williamson, liner notes to Legacy of the Scottish Harpers, Vol. 1 (well, not a book, but it is printed, and you can hold it in your hands)
You'll notice I don't include any books on *Irish* traditional music, which is a peculiarity of my own research on the tune. I guess that means I'll be doing some more research -- unless someone else has already done in wants to post their sources (hint hint).
A book it ain’t, but the Bodleian Library web site is good enough for me. Here may be found several broadsides of Gilderoy (type gilderoy into the search function):
http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ballads/ballads.htm
Some or all of these may be reprinted in a book or two, but printing off the facsimiles from this site is much more convenient.
... and another broadside here, courtesy of the National Library of Scotland:
http://www.nls.uk/broadsides/broadside.cfm/id/15859
From the “why re-invent the wheel department”. The late Bruce Olson was a tireless researcher of early traditional ballads (16-18c), and his web page is an invaluable resource. This is a wonder site to explore. Doing the research that is reflected in this site, Bruce held in his hand books you and I may never see. Some of the links to other sites are broken, but I’ve been able to find them by googling.
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/Olson/
Gilderoy seems to have been one of the Top 40 18th century ballad tunes, and it appears in countless collections (including an arrangement by Franz Joseph Haydn, who arranged quite a few (mostly) Scottish, Irish and Welsh tunes and songs.
# Posted on July 3rd 2006 by Tracie