I learn all my tunes by ear. I just tape tunes at sessions or from an individual player and learn them at home by just listening to the tape. I can read music but not very well. Is this a recommended method of learning tunes? Would I be better to learn them as they are written? I do find learning by ear works very well for me but long term is it a good method?
I've only started recently. Tunes can be learned so much quicker and you put an individual style of your own on them too. I better throw out my tune books :p
~ but those skeletons, whether black dots or ABC's or tab or Sol-Fa ~ they can be useful, but they are only a tool, if a very sparse one. They will never be anything like as valued or important as the ears...
Everyone probably knows this but I just found it out recently, not too quick here...
In Windows Media Player, you can slow down tracks from your library without changing the pitch. very useful when trying to learn fast tunes. It's an option somewhere at the top of the screen and it opens in the box at the bottom where you find your graphic EQ and stuff. I can be more specific if necessary.
lilt - yep that's a great way to learn. But do try to learn to learn directly from the player as well. Having a tape as an memory aid is great, but someday you may not want to be too dependant on it. Also, it is fun to learn tunes face to face, and I think you get an extra something when you can do this.
By learning from recordings you are setting yourself up for success at what I am suggesting, but don't get yourself into a frame of mind where you have to always be shut away somewhere endlessly running a recording back again and again to learn.
Long term, you may wish to improve your music reading, too, but it isn't the most important of skills in traditional music, just a handy one for some of us.
There are some earlier threads in discussion relevant to anna's comment, if you do a search for 'slowdowner' you'll discover them, but here are a few links:
I'm not familiar with this particular program, as I use others, but I have followed discussions and I know it is one many musicians have and use to help them 'hear', and learn...
wow! Got a nice warm glow for the weekend from all the positive comments. Thanks everyone. Will continue using that ear for the forseeable future. Anna and ceolachan, didnt know about that slowdown facility but it sounds the biz for me especially if the pitch isnt affected when the tune is slowed down. Am new and didnt know about this. Great! Am checkin it out right now. Thanks again everyone!
I’ve learned a lot of tunes by listening until the tune is in my head well enough that I can whistle it or lilt it. I’ve found that I’m a lot more likely to remember a tune I learn that way. I still might fill in a few gaps by checking out the dots.
I didn't know that Windows Media Player could do that. I am listening to Music at Matt Molloy's at a slow speed here at work. I can't wait to get home so I can try to learn the tunes! This Freaking ROCKS! Well....CEILI'S
The Windows Media Player won't work on many CDs, that's why the links were given to other options, and some will allow you to burn a practice CD for travelling, if you like...
Bo reminds me of how I teach, when I do. I torture my students and make them learn to hum, sing or lilt the tune before we really get into playing it on the instrument. Even worse, if it is a dance tune ~ we do a bit of dancing too, so they can physically get at one with the rhythm and the melody... It usually results in a lot of laughtter too, which is good for blowing away any tension. If a group class I find it helps to bond folks, after all, if you've made a fool of yourself in front of folks you're less worried about in the the future ~ especially since you're all in the same boat...
I also find its easier learning a tune by ear when it's in your head. I learnt the Glens of Aherlow off Kieran Hanrahan's album but I didn't really have it in my head and it took me about half an hour to get. Wheras, Dan Breen's reel went into my head after I heard it the first time and I got it at the second attempt. Exact same thing happened for Crowley's No. 1.
The windows media player feature is very good and I use that a lot but I'm going to check out this slowdowner programme. Never tried it before though have heard it numerous times.
I have learnt - learning to recognise and play tunes from deaf accordion speed demons just doesnt work.
Granted learning to read music doesnt help when music ebbs and flows, but it helps to be able to have a fair idea on the phrasing and just where its going.
Dont ever forget that many of these tunes were originally played by illiterate farmers, miners and working class peasants. They were passed on from family and/or pub through the generations. In many cases the ever written down or have only been transcribed in the past 100 yrs or so. Written music in the printed form was like the bible, reserved for the few and the religious
Education has been available for all for a long time in the western world, but education is like the industrial age, only a blip on the history radar. Not everyone can read music, but many can and it is unfair and irresponsible to apportion the skill to the swill bucket of life.
Without the written form many beautiful pieces INCLUDING ITM would not be available today. Many of us here would not be playing and passing on the passion. Why should the thousands if not millions of people around the world be denied learning about this beautiful music form just because there is no one to mentor them and to help them learn to play by ear.That is exactly what has happened in the past, the internet has brought us mp3's abc files and access to music that may not have been available to those outside certain areas or countries.
Its unfair, small minded and just plain selfish to demand certain techniques in learning, when in essence learning is what we want to see..
PS I use winamp with a plugin called pacemaker, can adjust speed, tempo and pitch.
The Amazing Slowdowner seems to be a nifty piece of software but is there anything like a small MP3 player that will do the same thing. I want to get away from the computer and a little digital recorder that I could bring to sessions, record on and practice on would be perfect. Is there such a thing? Something along the lines of the almost defunct small tape-recorder that Im using now. Maybe I'm ahead of myself and this gadget hasnt been invented yet!
It is no accident that there have been many great musicians who lacked the gift of sight, yet deaf musicians are an extreme rarity (Evelyn Glennie and Ludwig van Beethoven are the only ones I know of - and Beethoven only lost his hearing towards the end of his musical career).
I heard a radio feature several years ago about a lady violist in one of the professional London orchestras who completely lost her hearing in her teens, presumably because of an infection. This didn't prevent her from qualifying as a professional player and having an orchestral career. It seems she gets the essential information she needs about whether she's playing in tune from the vibration of the instrument, and the rest of the playing information from using her eyes.
Sorry, it was some time ago, and I don't remember any further details.
My short reply to your question is: Count it a Blessing!
Your question deserves more thoughtful consideration than many of us are willing to make.
It remains a huge stumbling block for many beginners in the Irish music, often because band instructors for young people for good logistical reasons must preclude the freedom to learn "by ear" or to encourage the intellectual freedom that is necessary to view the music as something to do for the pure pleasure of it. The Irish schools don't have these constraints, and it is probably just the American sports dominance that promotes the "Band" ethic. Not a bad thing , but different. I have already seen too many young people armed with wonderful flutes and certainly advanced skills in playing from written music, just stand and watch others untrained or otherwise beginning to learn to play, grab a tune from the air, and never look back. Doubtless they would almost rather be beginners again.
Lilt, what I've been doing is ripping CDs to PC, then using audacity (free download) to slow down the tunes...the slowed down version can be saved also...then copy the saved slow version to your mp3 player. my creative zen neeon player holds 6GB of data (about 1500 tunes at reasonable compression) and has a microphone as well as allowing line-in recording. i'm not aware of any reasonably priced gadget that allows you to record digitally and play back slowed down without going near a PC though
Bosco, I've been doing the Audacity thingy myself since January, CDs and MP3's, and have just started digitising the stash of old tape recordings. Can easily slow tunes down, learn by ear and build back up till you're playing at the tempo you want to play them at. It makes things so much quicker and easier and you can play with whoever you want without treading on sensitive toes. A great by ear tune learning aide.
I'm just not sure though about the actual quality of recording straight into Audacity. Not so good - but is it the mike/pick-up or the computer prog? That is the big question. Doing a workshop on Audacity on Wednesday, when maybe this issue might be addressed.
“I'm just not sure though about the actual quality of recording straight into Audacity. Not so good - but is it the mike/pick-up or the computer prog? That is the big question. Doing a workshop on Audacity on Wednesday, when maybe this issue might be addressed. “
The Audacity software just takes the digitized music from your sound card, formats it according to your setup parameters and stores it. It’s all pretty much standard stuff, so if you’re not getting good recordings, I would think the problem is upstream from Audacity. Unless you’re recording at a very low resolution.
We’ll be expecting a report from your workshop. Ten pages, single spaced.
My teacher always said to me you can only read to a certain speed, the notes off the page. Defintely learn by ear i try and do it as often as possible and im getting better. Persevere!!
In my experience reading music is very usefull but music learned by ear is more quickly and throughly memorized. But reading is more usefull in developing a mental picture of unusual musical structures and forms. So do both; you will be glad you do.
learning by ear!
learning by ear!
I learn all my tunes by ear. I just tape tunes at sessions or from an individual player and learn them at home by just listening to the tape. I can read music but not very well. Is this a recommended method of learning tunes? Would I be better to learn them as they are written? I do find learning by ear works very well for me but long term is it a good method?
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by lilt
Re: learning by ear!
You've got the oldest and most reliable skill of all - nurture it!
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Trevor Jennings
Re: learning by ear!
Yes, you have the preferred method
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ...
Re: learning by ear!
I've only started recently. Tunes can be learned so much quicker and you put an individual style of your own on them too. I better throw out my tune books :p
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by 52Paddy
Re: learning by ear!
Always ~ EARS FIRST!
~ but those skeletons, whether black dots or ABC's or tab or Sol-Fa ~ they can be useful, but they are only a tool, if a very sparse one. They will never be anything like as valued or important as the ears...
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan
Re: learning by ear!
Everyone probably knows this but I just found it out recently, not too quick here...
In Windows Media Player, you can slow down tracks from your library without changing the pitch. very useful when trying to learn fast tunes. It's an option somewhere at the top of the screen and it opens in the box at the bottom where you find your graphic EQ and stuff. I can be more specific if necessary.
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by anastasiadesroches
Re: learning by ear!
lilt - yep that's a great way to learn. But do try to learn to learn directly from the player as well. Having a tape as an memory aid is great, but someday you may not want to be too dependant on it. Also, it is fun to learn tunes face to face, and I think you get an extra something when you can do this.
By learning from recordings you are setting yourself up for success at what I am suggesting, but don't get yourself into a frame of mind where you have to always be shut away somewhere endlessly running a recording back again and again to learn.
Long term, you may wish to improve your music reading, too, but it isn't the most important of skills in traditional music, just a handy one for some of us.
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by kris
Re: learning by ear!
A live source! ~ always to be valued...
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan
Re: learning by ear!
There are some earlier threads in discussion relevant to anna's comment, if you do a search for 'slowdowner' you'll discover them, but here are a few links:
Free slowdowner
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/7553
amazin slowdowner
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/3116
How to make a slowed down CD for practicing
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/4537
Slowing down CD's and maintaining pitch
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/1634
I'm not familiar with this particular program, as I use others, but I have followed discussions and I know it is one many musicians have and use to help them 'hear', and learn...
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan
Re: learning by ear!
wow! Got a nice warm glow for the weekend from all the positive comments. Thanks everyone. Will continue using that ear for the forseeable future. Anna and ceolachan, didnt know about that slowdown facility but it sounds the biz for me especially if the pitch isnt affected when the tune is slowed down. Am new and didnt know about this. Great! Am checkin it out right now. Thanks again everyone!
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by lilt
Re: learning by ear!
I’ve learned a lot of tunes by listening until the tune is in my head well enough that I can whistle it or lilt it. I’ve found that I’m a lot more likely to remember a tune I learn that way. I still might fill in a few gaps by checking out the dots.
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: learning by ear!
I didn't know that Windows Media Player could do that. I am listening to Music at Matt Molloy's at a slow speed here at work. I can't wait to get home so I can try to learn the tunes! This Freaking ROCKS! Well....CEILI'S
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by BoldCaptainFreeny
Re: learning by ear!
I wish I could have done that when I started. Forget the dots.
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Why Bother?
Re: learning by ear!
The Windows Media Player won't work on many CDs, that's why the links were given to other options, and some will allow you to burn a practice CD for travelling, if you like...
Bo reminds me of how I teach, when I do. I torture my students and make them learn to hum, sing or lilt the tune before we really get into playing it on the instrument. Even worse, if it is a dance tune ~ we do a bit of dancing too, so they can physically get at one with the rhythm and the melody... It usually results in a lot of laughtter too, which is good for blowing away any tension. If a group class I find it helps to bond folks, after all, if you've made a fool of yourself in front of folks you're less worried about in the the future ~ especially since you're all in the same boat...
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan
Re: learning by ear!
Just to clarify, the media player only works for the music that you upload to your music library, it won't work straight from the CD as far as I know.
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by anastasiadesroches
Re: learning by ear!
I think Anna is right.
I agree with Ceol as well. I'm better off learning tunes away from my instruments.
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Drop_D_Chalupa
Re: learning by ear!
The Amazing Slowdowner works very well and can work straight off a CD.
# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: learning by ear!
I also find its easier learning a tune by ear when it's in your head. I learnt the Glens of Aherlow off Kieran Hanrahan's album but I didn't really have it in my head and it took me about half an hour to get. Wheras, Dan Breen's reel went into my head after I heard it the first time and I got it at the second attempt. Exact same thing happened for Crowley's No. 1.
The windows media player feature is very good and I use that a lot but I'm going to check out this slowdowner programme. Never tried it before though have heard it numerous times.
# Posted on June 24th 2006 by 52Paddy
Re: learning by ear!
I have learnt - learning to recognise and play tunes from deaf accordion speed demons just doesnt work.
Granted learning to read music doesnt help when music ebbs and flows, but it helps to be able to have a fair idea on the phrasing and just where its going.
Dont ever forget that many of these tunes were originally played by illiterate farmers, miners and working class peasants. They were passed on from family and/or pub through the generations. In many cases the ever written down or have only been transcribed in the past 100 yrs or so. Written music in the printed form was like the bible, reserved for the few and the religious
Education has been available for all for a long time in the western world, but education is like the industrial age, only a blip on the history radar. Not everyone can read music, but many can and it is unfair and irresponsible to apportion the skill to the swill bucket of life.
Without the written form many beautiful pieces INCLUDING ITM would not be available today. Many of us here would not be playing and passing on the passion. Why should the thousands if not millions of people around the world be denied learning about this beautiful music form just because there is no one to mentor them and to help them learn to play by ear.That is exactly what has happened in the past, the internet has brought us mp3's abc files and access to music that may not have been available to those outside certain areas or countries.
Its unfair, small minded and just plain selfish to demand certain techniques in learning, when in essence learning is what we want to see..
PS I use winamp with a plugin called pacemaker, can adjust speed, tempo and pitch.
# Posted on June 24th 2006 by Joze
Re: learning by ear!
The Amazing Slowdowner seems to be a nifty piece of software but is there anything like a small MP3 player that will do the same thing. I want to get away from the computer and a little digital recorder that I could bring to sessions, record on and practice on would be perfect. Is there such a thing? Something along the lines of the almost defunct small tape-recorder that Im using now. Maybe I'm ahead of myself and this gadget hasnt been invented yet!
# Posted on June 24th 2006 by lilt
Re: learning by ear!
It is no accident that there have been many great musicians who lacked the gift of sight, yet deaf musicians are an extreme rarity (Evelyn Glennie and Ludwig van Beethoven are the only ones I know of - and Beethoven only lost his hearing towards the end of his musical career).
# Posted on June 24th 2006 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: learning by ear!
I heard a radio feature several years ago about a lady violist in one of the professional London orchestras who completely lost her hearing in her teens, presumably because of an infection. This didn't prevent her from qualifying as a professional player and having an orchestral career. It seems she gets the essential information she needs about whether she's playing in tune from the vibration of the instrument, and the rest of the playing information from using her eyes.
Sorry, it was some time ago, and I don't remember any further details.
# Posted on June 24th 2006 by Trevor Jennings
Re: learning by ear!
play it by ear
# Posted on June 24th 2006 by corncrake
Re: learning by ear!
My short reply to your question is: Count it a Blessing!
Your question deserves more thoughtful consideration than many of us are willing to make.
It remains a huge stumbling block for many beginners in the Irish music, often because band instructors for young people for good logistical reasons must preclude the freedom to learn "by ear" or to encourage the intellectual freedom that is necessary to view the music as something to do for the pure pleasure of it. The Irish schools don't have these constraints, and it is probably just the American sports dominance that promotes the "Band" ethic. Not a bad thing , but different. I have already seen too many young people armed with wonderful flutes and certainly advanced skills in playing from written music, just stand and watch others untrained or otherwise beginning to learn to play, grab a tune from the air, and never look back. Doubtless they would almost rather be beginners again.
# Posted on June 25th 2006 by wvwhistler
Re: learning by ear!
Lilt, what I've been doing is ripping CDs to PC, then using audacity (free download) to slow down the tunes...the slowed down version can be saved also...then copy the saved slow version to your mp3 player. my creative zen neeon player holds 6GB of data (about 1500 tunes at reasonable compression) and has a microphone as well as allowing line-in recording. i'm not aware of any reasonably priced gadget that allows you to record digitally and play back slowed down without going near a PC though
# Posted on June 26th 2006 by bosco
Re: learning by ear!
Bosco, I've been doing the Audacity thingy myself since January, CDs and MP3's, and have just started digitising the stash of old tape recordings. Can easily slow tunes down, learn by ear and build back up till you're playing at the tempo you want to play them at. It makes things so much quicker and easier and you can play with whoever you want without treading on sensitive toes. A great by ear tune learning aide.
I'm just not sure though about the actual quality of recording straight into Audacity. Not so good - but is it the mike/pick-up or the computer prog? That is the big question. Doing a workshop on Audacity on Wednesday, when maybe this issue might be addressed.
# Posted on June 26th 2006 by Clear Drops
Re: learning by ear!
“I'm just not sure though about the actual quality of recording straight into Audacity. Not so good - but is it the mike/pick-up or the computer prog? That is the big question. Doing a workshop on Audacity on Wednesday, when maybe this issue might be addressed. “
The Audacity software just takes the digitized music from your sound card, formats it according to your setup parameters and stores it. It’s all pretty much standard stuff, so if you’re not getting good recordings, I would think the problem is upstream from Audacity. Unless you’re recording at a very low resolution.
We’ll be expecting a report from your workshop. Ten pages, single spaced.
# Posted on June 27th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: learning by ear!
My teacher always said to me you can only read to a certain speed, the notes off the page. Defintely learn by ear i try and do it as often as possible and im getting better. Persevere!!
# Posted on June 27th 2006 by BoxPlayer1989
Re: learning by ear!
In my experience reading music is very usefull but music learned by ear is more quickly and throughly memorized. But reading is more usefull in developing a mental picture of unusual musical structures and forms. So do both; you will be glad you do.
# Posted on July 8th 2006 by red_tiger