Listening through a classic recording the other day, I checked to see if it had been added, searching on the title - no match, then searching on part of the title - no match, then searching on the players - I couldn't see it there.
I submitted the recording tracks only to receive an email from Almighty Jeremy telling me the recording had already been submitted.
Upon inspection, I find the recording had been added with the title in gaelic, it was staring me in the face but certainly not obvious to anyone not familiar with the language.
Nowhere on the cd is the title shown in gaelic so I was at a bit of a loss as to why it was posted thus. The one tune on the cd that was in gaelic spelling was posted in gaelic, all the others were in English (including one that was subtitled with gaelic spelling on the insert).
It strikes me as nothing but elitism, the gaelic spelling does not show up properly on everyones computer and is certainly not helpful to anyone wanting to find the recording or tune. This is an Irish music site not an Irish language site.
Rant over.
I agree absolutely that one might reasonably argue this is an example of cultural elitism; and, of course, you can't play these tunes properly if you haven't herded the cattle across the frozen bogs through the early morning mist in your bare feet.
Most of the Irish ( still ) can't read or speak gaelic. I seem to remember that DeValera always used to give the first ten minutes of any speech in gaelic, then continue without translation in english. In my own native island, though as a teenager I met the odd family where they spoke the local patois as a first language at home, nowadays if you want to learn it you go to evening classes at the college.
I dont want to seem rude, but is it the fault of the Irish Language that the computer programme cant recognise the lettering? Shouldnt the moderator rectify that situation? It is very easily done and should have been done before now.
Can you tell me how we are supposed to seperate the language from the culture? I thought this was a forum about Irish Traditional music, if it was a Chinese music forum, I for one would be interested in learning a little chinese, most open minded people would.
As an Irish speaker, does that make me an elitist because I speak my own mother tongue?
I hope you dont mind me saying Geoff, but I found your remake not only disrespectful but dismissive.
I hope this reply doesnt upset you half as much as your post upset me as an Irish women who's fought hard for the right to use her language in the same ways that english speakers take for granted.
What happened to the multicultural brotherhood of man? Or are only english speakers allowed to join that club?
It's bad enough that England has spent almost a thousand yrs repreasing the Gaelic language and virtually beating it to a pulp now the few of us that are left can't post in Gaelic: bloodly cheek of us, we are worse than all those bloody Europeans who insist on speaking their own language when we holiday there every year.
Sorry if I played an unwitting part in upsetting you over this , Geoff, as it was me who pointed out the duplication. This recording came out as an LP record originally, on the Gael Linn label. I think I’m right in stating that Gael Linn have a policy of releasing all of their recordings with the titles in Irish Gaelic. [ Recordings by Mary Bergin, Jacky Daly and the Desi Wilkinson / Gerry O’Connor recording all spring to mind. ] This is hardly surprising, since their purpose is to “promote the Irish language and its’ heritage”, which they have been doing since 1953, apparently.
I don’t know about the CD, but can guarantee that the title on the cover of the LP record is in Gaelic, and that would be how it came to be posted under that title, which is perfectly logical. I’m also pretty certain that Gael Linn will always print their sleeve notes in Gaelic, but also provide English translation, although maybe not in every case.
If you have reason to object to an Irish record label using Irish Gaelic on its’ recordings, I suggest you contact them and let them know. I have to say , I don’t think you’ll get much sympathy.
Incidentally, a “search” on any of the 4 words Noel, Hill, Tony or MacMahon would have let you see that this recording had already been posted.
Out of curiosity, do you speak only English or can you also converse in Gaidhlig (by the way, the site wouldnt allow me to place the accent over the first *a*)?
GuernseyPete, I dont even want to get started about your sweeping generalisations, and by the way, you might want to repeat that statement to the children around Ireland being educated through Gaeilge, does that mean that the thousands of (statistically proven) children and their families that I work with on a yearly basis are a figment of my imagination?
I think this post should be renamed *Ignorance of the statistical facts surrounding the Growth of the Irish Language*
I work through Irish, speak it to my child, husband, friends, colleagues, professionals (some of whom are senior civil servants in the British Government, imagine that!) and family who, used it as their mother tongue for centuries until forced to stop, by a foreign government.
Should I stop here? Or will we continue on in this vein? Will we start now on how this attitude affects my daughters rights growing up in an English world as an Irish speaker. Does this mean she is less entitled to what you take for granted? Or will we all just speak English and get it over with?
By the way, Gaeilge is the term we use not Gaelic.
Although I understand Geoff's frustration with not being able to find the tune, I think crying elitist is a little uncalled for. These are sensitive times and being labeled elitist, or racist, or whatsist, makes people feel extremely uncomfortable. One cannot use accusations like that to bully your way through an argument without offending someone.
There are times when you simply have to say what you think, even when it might offend, but accusations of exclusivity (like elitism, etc.) is usually an indication that the problem lies with the accuser feeling excluded.
I don't believe that whoever posted the title in Gaelic intented to exclude anybody, but the Gaelic title obviously makes Geoff feel excluded.
I totally agree with every reply on this. I haven't the time to tell you exactly how I feel but to Geoff I have no offence towards you. Yesterday I was looking up a name on a search and could quiet easily find the name in both English and Irish when I entered it into the search. Blas and Doire in strongly agree as me being Irish myself. I envy anyone who can speak Irish fluently or who lives in the Gaeltacht as I only learnt the basics when I was young. As far as I can see our language dissappearing and becoming something of the old Ireland and fair play to any Irish speaking person who is speaking it to their family colleagues and friends.
These things can be very easily rectified Shrog,and while I agree that trying to translate a different language can be an inconvieniance, if Geoff had put the words into any number of sites that deal with translation of the Irish Language, it shouldnt have been a problem, it just would have taken a bit of digging. Frustration cant be an excuse for sweeping generalisations such as the ones I have read above. A little bit of understanding that we are all different and entitled to claim our respective cultural heritage, would go a long way here.
Had the statements above been used in relation to another minority language, some people on this site would be accused of other things as well of being ignorant.
I am taken a back by the attitude, but sadly not surprised.
Blas, are you arguing with me or agreeing with me? If you're arguing, then I have been misunderstood, because you are saying exactly what was trying to say.
"Frustration cant be an excuse for sweeping generalisations" = "I understand Geoff's frustration... but I think crying elitist is a little uncalled for."
Agreeing very strongly Shrog, except where you state that you felt that Geoff feels excluded, I think *ignorant* is the better choice of word and dont even get me started on Guernsey Pete.
This is an IRISH MUSIC FORUM. Surely the clue is in the description of the site. It must have crossed Geoff's mind that there would be new and interesting things to learn whilst being involved in a site like this. These are the most strongly worded posts that I have ever written, the fact that I felt the need to do it speaks volumes.
I tell you what Geoff and Pete, I promise that I will desist from spouting off rubbish statements about things I dont fully understand...If you two will follow suit.
I'm afraid I just found this posting a little late, and it pushed my marginally high blood pressure upwards. I could not believe that anyone could be so insensitive, insulting, or asinine on this site. The cheek of us pretending we still have a language, recognised as a Minority Language by the EU (something more had we not been blessed with the company of our friends from the other side of the Irish Sea for the past 850 years or so). I think it's past time we insisted that the French, Spanish, Germans, etc., posted their songs in English.
As I continued to read, my blood pressure dropped a little, thanks to sarfly and blas. Go raibh maith agaibh araon. Ta me buioch dibh mar gheall ar bhur seasamh i gcoinne raimeis mar seo. In case anyone is feeling left out, I thanked Blas and Sarfly for confronting the garbage that we could well do without on this site.
I understand your difficulty and frustration regarding checking for the duplication, but disagree with your elitism comment. I guess many of us are guilty of posting things on the yellow board without thinking things through - then wishing to delete what we've said - myself included!
Larsheen, this is NOT a political disscussion, and I am surprised that you felt the need to throw that into the mix, and maybe you should also explain to me why it is MY fault that the history between the two countries exists, I hadnt been born yet, and it is a recorded fact that the culture was nearly wiped off the face of the earth. I dont bear any grudges, and quite frankly Larsheen, I dont know where you get the right to brand me a bigot, simply because I took exception to the comments here, which by the way were posted with out consideration to the feelings of others. You dont know me, I dont know if I am more taken aback by the other two or YOU.
The fact that I just happened to be on line at the time when Geoff posted his comment is a coincident.
If you want me to denounce the catholic church Larsheen, then I definately agree with you.
However...
Out of curiousity, what makes you think that I am a catholic? Because I speak Irish, and play the music? Or are you making sweeping generalisations here also?
This is not about religion, politics or anything else of that nature. This is about making derogatory remarks about sections of communities different from *your norm*, in the hope that everyone will studiously ignore it. Sorry, someone was bound to take them up on it.
Tell us, what is being blamed on others. The last line Geoff said is really what sparked this off,
"This is an Irish music site, not an Irish language site"
Well excuse me all who does not speak Irish but some do and yes songs are submitted Irish titled.
Also no one is blaming Britain, you started with a rant about the Brits. I lived in the North for a part of my life and am now living in the South again for family reasons and I will not say what political party I support but you comment was very maddening. And as for Christian Brothers, my Granduncle was one and an excellent box players but was a man never involved in "abusing".
If you want to continue your anger over politics and religion i am sure there is a few forums that will take you on out there where you can relieve your anger and disturbing comments.
We are here to discuss Irish music and learn from each other and that is what we will continue to do.
Sorcha (Irish for Sarah but I usually go with Sarah)
Oh and yes maybe Jeremy has permission to send him a "snotty" email, leave him do as he wishes, he is a great man, it would not surprise me if you had received some after your comments as this is an IRISH MUSIC DISCUSSION FORUM.
Larsheen, when you have enough information about the growth of the Irish Language at the present time, then I will discuss it with you. In the meantime, I will pass your sentiments on to the people here knocking their pans in on the ground, oh, and to the nearly thirty Irish Language medium schools I work with. They will be delighted I am sure.
The only one that I can see making political remarks of any strength is you. I dont think that I am on my own here when I say that Geoffs comment along with Pete's, illustrate quite clearly what it is like to deal with ignorance.
I was brought up in Canada (where we learnt to speak French), lived in England, have travelled all over the world to, like you, many different countries, and I am fairly certain, that they would have been equally unsettled by those remarks. They also would have felt it neccessary to point out the fact that it was inappropriate to say the least.
To make a comparison, I'm not fond of church music, but I wouldnt dream of complaining about it and dissing it, simply because I dont understand it. Geoff is into church music as I read from his biog.
All I will say is TOLERANCE AND RESPECT.
For me, your comments actually unsettled me more, with your assumptions about the disscussion that fitted quite nicely in with Geoffs and Petes.
Perhaps those of you who are lucky enough to live in Ireland could humour those of us who don't....I can understand why Geoff would find annoying that the same album was posted in a different language even if some people can't. Maybe the answer is if people posted the english translation of the CD title in the comments section (and so people also do a comments search for that title), or Jeremy could include a field similar to "Know this tune by another name" in the CD section?
That said, the language of this board is english as it is the most universally understood. In the same manner that anyone from a french, spanish, etc speaking country wouldn't post in their native language - by and large more people will understand you if you post information in English, it's just courteous to the majority. Anyone deliberately using a language to enable only a certain group of people to access information IS being eliteist (in my opinion), be that language english, german, gaelic or whatever.
If anyone knows of a decent Gaelic - English translation site (ie one that works well), why not stick it up in the links section, or Jeremy could even stick a link to it somewhere prominent??
Whoops ! or perhaps I should say "Boudiax ! "
Well, I was taught French at school, but don't expect me to do more than swear in it.
Wasn't the original point that if you only publish in one language you exclude those that don't understand it ? I thought we were for inclusivity these days ?
People talk about the renaisance in Gaelic, but the only time I heard it in Eire on my recent visit was on televison, not out in public. At least, when I was a kid, you could hear the older people jabbering away in patois ( my mother came home incensed once, heard two visitors on the bus insisting that the patois speakers only put it on for the tourists ). You know how well a language is being used when you hear the kids swearing in it. I don't say it's not being taught, but I didn't hear it being used.
So at least I have the experience of coming from somewhere where the old language gets supplanted by English. It still seems to me that if you're ONLY going to print anything in Gaelic than it excludes, and if one thing seems true, it is that this music which we all love can break down barriers
Lar Sin
I hope you don't mind me arbitrarily changing your name to Gaelic,you referred to me bleming the English for the demise of the Irish language i make no apologies about this,they did the same as the Spanish.French,Belgians and Portuguese in their colonies.You also claim that they didn't obliterate the languages of all theri colonies this is partly true but it wasn't for the want of trying.If had as long in these countries they certainly would have succeeded.It's true that Gaelic is now in serious decline,but to us that cherish it and continue to preserve what is left of it Geoff's attitude is quite frankly appalling.It smacks of an attitude prevelant amoung English speakers all over the world which insists the bloodly natives have a cheek not speaking to them in English.i find ypur attitude strange as you are obviously interested in a MINORITY music,sure nobody plays Trad music in Ireland it's a minority music Country and music is the real thing.
I feel it is quite reasonable for someone who is continually asked to translate their name or address into English or who has to turn to English as soon as one single Engish speaker comes into the company to feel agrieved at someone on a Irish Tred site calling us elitist if we don't translate everything into English because they they don't understand it.It also annoys me when people like Lisheen think that every Irish speaker is a rabid ntionalist who backs the Catholic church'Cj Haughey or the Christian Brothers.
I condemn anyone responsible for the repression language and the state that it find itself in.Lisheen quite clearly states that he will listen to what I have to say if only say what he/she wants to hear.i would gladly attack the Catholic Churches attitude for instance but it wouldn't be half as much as i would have to say about the Anglicans.As for CJ Haughey I think he was the Taoiseach responsible for abolishing the ministry of the Gaeltacht wasn't he.When you go to your next session don't ask for a translation of "na Cannabhain Bhana" an"Phis Fhluich" etc it just demeans the music and the underlying culture.
I have to say I find some of the opinions of the Gaelic speaking members of the board short sighted and counter-productive. You do yourselves no favours in "saving" Irish culture and tradition by using an information website such as this to post extremely useful information in a language which is incomprehensible to the majority of the community here. The gaelic speaking people who deign to save the tradition of Ireland (and I include the music and language here) should bear in mind that people won't translate gaelic, any more than they would german, so important views are ignored.
So they might save the language to a slight degree (if one or two people decide to learn it), but recordings of the "source generations" are hiden behind a language barrier errected by the people who similarly moan that too many people consider Solas, Lunasa or Flook trad music and don't listen to enough old recordings. So if you want to share this information, display it here (and other places) in a manner that is understood easily by most members here, or sacrifice a brilliant opportunity to inform, advise and instruct those who are from different cultures, but who nonetheless express an interest in ITM. Go save the language elsewhere!
I should point out, most people in reality aren't like this, but a disturbing number are leaping in to this discussion without thinking first.
Apologies for any offence, just thought it had to be said. Rant over!
To put the record straight, I don't speak Gaelic, and, realistically, I don't expect I ever will (I have more pressing linguistic concerns to get to grip with), but I keep a small Irish dictionary and a grammar handy for reference when on a site such as this.
Seo e an focal scor uaimse (my second and last words on the subject).
Why have the initial comments in this thread sparked so much indignation from others and myself? It is because we are Irish and we cherish and value our culture. That's a good reason to belong to this site dedicated to Irish Traditional Music. ITM may have started in Ireland, but now it is the world's to hear, play, enjoy. The Irish Language (beo fos, still alive) is another part of our culture. I for one value it and so do countless others. Because we nearly lost it, we value it all the more. It's not my intention to give a history tutorial (there are books for those interested), but here are a few details to explain where we are today. Irish was our language before the English came and continued to be the spoken language of the Irish people until the 18th century at least. At that time (following the Williamite Wars, Treaty of Limerick, Flight of the Wild Geese, and so on) Penal Laws were introduced which were aimed at suppressing Irish Culture. The music, the religion, the language, etc suffered, but did not die. By 1830 or so, Irish was still the language of the majority. In 1831, the National Schools were established and this institution brought Irish to death's door. Irish was not taught and the speaking of Irish was a punishable offence. (My father was born in 1894 and received all of his education under this system. One day at school, he said something in Irish and was punished for it. But he learned his lesson, he said, and never used it again. The only classmate who was punished frequently was, as my father said, "a biteen soft or a bit of a leath" in other words backward or mentally handicapped and he didn't learn his lesson quickly, poor fellow).At the end of the 19th century, there was a Gaelic Revival movement in literature, games, and language. Connradh na Gaeilge worked to revive and promote the almost dead language. With Independence, Irish was promoted with mixed success down the years. I don't want to open up the compulsory Irish bag, so let's just say that the language lives today, is spoken in some areas as a first language, works in prose and poetry are being published, and we have Irish Language television and radio ( Incidentally, you will find very good programs of ITM, instrumental and vocal on RTE's Raidio na Gaeltachta on the net). Enough history.
This is an ITM site. ITM came down to us from Irish speakers. Every generation adds to that store. Surely this is one site where the language should be valued. That is not to say Irish should ever be used to exclude people or make them feel unwelcome. I for one would be happy to translate if asked. So would others. I have seen a number of threads where such assistance was asked. By the time I got there, many others had already done so.
So yes, I/we are sensitive about our language and given the attempts to eradicate it that should not be surprising. Sin a' meid. That's it.
Mairtin
I have a friend, Niamh, who is constantly asked what the English equivalent of her name is. She gets quite p*ssed off by this, understandably. It is the notion that a culture can only exist with reference to another (usually English) that seems to be annoying people here, and possibly the tone of the initial thread. Rather than complaining that a tune or recording is only listed in Irish, why not ASK?
Nobody here is being asked to save the Irish language, but if you're seeking some sort of kudos for parttaking in some wonderful cultural exchange, would it be too much to learn a couple of words? Look at how crudely the language has been bastardised in the "translation" of placenames in the country and how much of the richness has been lost? The notion of cultural exchange is based on giving as well as taking.
I don't speak any Irish, but I feel really queasy reading this thread. Good on you Mairtin, blas and others who have spoken out. If nothing else good comes out of this thread, at least we get to know who the bigots are.
To the subject line: deal with it; savor it; learn from it.
Get over your culturally elitist attitude and move to your original goal. Understand the music and the context, whether that be in Irish or in English. Realize that you must sometimes take a step forward, away from your norm. Get over your instincts that everything must be delivered to you on a silver platter.
Thanks Jode but I think I'll pass on your last suggestion. I came too late to this discussion to make any very useful contribution.
Bosco - Dow never mentioned how he named my guitar "Niamh"!!
More on topic: I think some albums get sold on one side of the atlantic with titles that are a bit 'As Gaeilge', and have the name changed to English for the American and Australian market. The solution has been made already that before posting it is a good idea to do an artist search under recordings. On the other side if I were to post an Album title under its Gaeilge title I would put the English equivalent (if I know it) in the comments section.
This is bugger all about blaming historical events on the known masses Larsheen, and more about the fact that some people should think carefully about what they are going to write before they post comments here.
The rest of us are wallowing in pools of *careful* words, just in case we may unwittingly upset the ideaologies of others.
It would appear that some members dont have to adhere to the same social rules as others, tell me why the rest of us should ignore it?
As for bringing in the future of the Irish Language Larsheen, if you read back I think you will find that you were the one that drove that point on by telling all and sundry here that it is a dying language that no-one cares about even the Irish.
Nice.
Larsheen
You seem to miss my point I do include ourselves as a nation for not maintaining our language and my comments about England were deliberate when Geoff (who I presume is English )accusses Gaelic speakers of being elitist and then crowns it off by TELLING me that this is ITM site.Foregive me Larseen, this attitude displays a complete ignorance of ITM the Gaelic language is so intrically weaved into the fabric of ITM that it is difficult to discuss one without reference to the other.This music is the product of Gaelic irish speaking people
Some of the comments on this issue also display a remarkable ignorance of ITM particularly by you and Guernsey Pete.When some people refer to ITM on this site they are clearly referring to dance music alone.They are the type of people who immediately start talking at a session when a song is called for or tap their instruments impatiently throughout the song.Many also play fast because they think this is what it is all about they also have a total lack of ryhthm because they have never seen Irish music danced to and it never dawns on them that this was it original purpose.This attitude explains the poularity of reels in modern sessions It has been a long time since I have a well played slow air or slip-jig at a session.
The Gaelic language and song is an indistinguishable part of this culture and to understand its music it greatly helps to understand its language.Highlands Slides and Barndances nearly all survive in Gaelic speaking districts alone and this why the local players are best at playing them because they understand the whole culture.The reason you don't like sean-nos may have something to do with your inability to understand the story.Ta me ag meas go bhfuil go leor raite agam fa dtaobh de seo ach seasfidh me sa bhearna bhaoil aris mas ga
If you care so litte about the language, then why do you play the music? You seem to enjoy rubbing it into our faces about the British Government. At least I can say we are known in our country for talent, culture and generosity and we have some thing to hold on to. By saying that, Im not offending anyone who is English, I have many English friends in London, but Larsheen you have my blood boiling.
Also if one reads down through the discussion, one will notice how Larsheens posts are becoming weaker and weaker so once again us Irish have proven our point.
I quite like you Larsheen.
It cant be easy holding up a veiw point that others disagree with.
I cant agree with alot that you have written, but I respect your opinion and you are entitled to it, I hope you feel the same about everyone elses opinions too.
..... is that it then?
I was enjoying that.
The English (and English-speaking Scots) gave the Scots Gaelic language a hiding as well during and after the Clearances. Half of them ended up in Canada, where they still speak it. Any way we've got to give the English a slagging today just in case they think they're gonna beat Trinidad and Tobago.
But as for the English language it'll have its day soon and be replaced by Chinese as a global tongue...just as soon as the American Empire falters. All that needs to happen is for countries to whom USA owes money, they just need to ask loans to be repaid in Euros as a US dollar is not printed to the value of each dollar of wealth produced...they're just printed "on trust" as the US dollar is such a strong currency. As for their football team...let's not even GO there.
Also if you want a translation you could try a website like this one: http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/
Hey Danny, I'm afraid, from what I understand, that there aren't many speakers of Scots Gaelic in Canada at all. And, last count, there were only around 60,000 in Scotland.
However, there's a success story in Wales - Welsh is really thriving. So, it can be done....it just needs lots of bloody-mindedness.
Yep Ron, and a telly channel in the language. I believe S4C has made a sigificant contribution to the furthering of the Welsh language: http://www.learnons4c.co.uk/home.php?c=3
so, as you say it can be done.
Hey Key maniac Lad, dont forget the 3 new Irish Language channels that operate in Ireland, not to mention the Irish Lang community T.V companies and the loads of radio stations we have over here for the Speakers. I work in the same office space as one of the radio stations here in Belfast. Great craic, oops I mean crack, for all you non-gaeilge.
Yip here you go....
www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/irish/blas
www.rte.ie/rnag
www.tg4.ie
www.nvtv.co.uk http://channel9.msdn.com
www.srl.ie
then there are - raidío fáilte, míle fáilte, raidío na life, and numerous information sites, comhairle na gaelscolaíochta, conradh na gaelige, foras na gaeilge, www.pobal.org, the list goes on.
Deary me .... I know I am a bit of a wind-up merchant but didn't expect this much reaction.
The cd in question says it was re-released in 1992 so we would expect the vinyl copy (which may have been Gael Linn and in gaelic, I do have some other records of a similar era which were) to be somewhat extinct - but evidently not.
Sorry to any (of person-kind) who took offence, but I still stand by my original complaint that if you type in the players names and still cannot pick out the cd title from the list because it isn't obvious - It isn't helpful.
Some standardisation is certainly called for so that a search will find what is required. There are other users of this site who don't speak English either so they will find searching doubly difficult when this sort of thing occurs.
:->
From one wind-up merchant to another:
Geoff, I think half the time some people on here actually *enjoy* getting wound up as the replies they come out with, although strident in their condemnation of the winder-up, are done so at a safe distance and via the protective glass of a computer monitor. I wonder if the said "windées-up" ar so bold in public. (I know as a winder-up I probably am not either!)
What are goin on about Geoff? We have had a brill time on the back of your off the cuff comment, I certainly dont harbour any bad feeling toward you.
I actually thought that you were taking the p*ss, and as such I thought the best policy was to badger you out for your real opinion, oh, that and like you I was in a bit of a bad mood!
Ok I'm bored and it has been a long week and I think it's time to start an argument off. I think I will play my whistle and skip lightly around the office playing the most idiotic song ever.
Lets go back to when I was four.............
Blah blah black sheep........ yes sir yes sir.......
Did you ever come to a stage that you have so much to do but you just don't know where to start. Plus I am so tired that my head is throbing and I have to go for dinner tonight as my sister finished her Leaving Cert. I don't have days off, I work constantly. I need to be kept occupied, actually maybe I need a life.......
Brown bear in the rain, fah lah lah lah lah ...........
Amen to all of that!
All my colleagues are away off home and I am still in the bloody office, it would make you want to run screaming into the night, especially when you know the house is bogging and the dinner needs doing. As for not knowing where to start, why do you think I was replying to that discussion?
There's nothing like a good drop of procrastination to stop you reaching target dates! Moilleadóireacht mas maith leat!
And if I were you I wouldnt worry too much about not having a life, if you are anything like me at the moment, you wouldnt know what to do with one anyway!!!
Oíche mhaith.
There are obviously some buttons one just shouldn't push !
A while ago someone printed an item, puportedly from an old-fashioned teacher of the pipes, complaining we were doing it all wrong. This was read as a wind-up, and much enjoyed. To include one line in that style, after the original posting, as I did, was not read as such, and seems to have set everyone off.
Well, doire, for instance; I sing as well as play, I went to my first session about 35 years ago, I play for dance too, and my celtic ancestors left home about 120 years ago, so I may not be fully au fait with every shift in popular received opinions in the Republic.
I just like the music, and would like to be able to read the titles in english, which isn't the official language of my native home either.
And, anyway, isn't this all ancient history ?
Why are we rehashing old resentments ?
We're all europaens now, "We forgave the Germans, and then we were friends ", except for my SO of course, because I married an alien.
TTFN
Re: Titles of wind-up Recordings in Gaelic splleeing?
76th post wow!!!
Why bother with a translator when 99% of the site is in English?
Must get off - I have to do some serious playing of Irish tunes with English titles (for dosh, of course).
Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Listening through a classic recording the other day, I checked to see if it had been added, searching on the title - no match, then searching on part of the title - no match, then searching on the players - I couldn't see it there.
I submitted the recording tracks only to receive an email from Almighty Jeremy telling me the recording had already been submitted.
Upon inspection, I find the recording had been added with the title in gaelic, it was staring me in the face but certainly not obvious to anyone not familiar with the language.
Nowhere on the cd is the title shown in gaelic so I was at a bit of a loss as to why it was posted thus. The one tune on the cd that was in gaelic spelling was posted in gaelic, all the others were in English (including one that was subtitled with gaelic spelling on the insert).
It strikes me as nothing but elitism, the gaelic spelling does not show up properly on everyones computer and is certainly not helpful to anyone wanting to find the recording or tune. This is an Irish music site not an Irish language site.
Rant over.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by geoffwright
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
I take it you have been in on the discussion
" Are we losing the tradition to academics and commercialism" !!!!!
I think you might have started another!
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
I agree absolutely that one might reasonably argue this is an example of cultural elitism; and, of course, you can't play these tunes properly if you haven't herded the cattle across the frozen bogs through the early morning mist in your bare feet.
Most of the Irish ( still ) can't read or speak gaelic. I seem to remember that DeValera always used to give the first ten minutes of any speech in gaelic, then continue without translation in english. In my own native island, though as a teenager I met the odd family where they spoke the local patois as a first language at home, nowadays if you want to learn it you go to evening classes at the college.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
When in Rome do as the Romans do Geoff?
I dont want to seem rude, but is it the fault of the Irish Language that the computer programme cant recognise the lettering? Shouldnt the moderator rectify that situation? It is very easily done and should have been done before now.
Can you tell me how we are supposed to seperate the language from the culture? I thought this was a forum about Irish Traditional music, if it was a Chinese music forum, I for one would be interested in learning a little chinese, most open minded people would.
As an Irish speaker, does that make me an elitist because I speak my own mother tongue?
I hope you dont mind me saying Geoff, but I found your remake not only disrespectful but dismissive.
I hope this reply doesnt upset you half as much as your post upset me as an Irish women who's fought hard for the right to use her language in the same ways that english speakers take for granted.
What happened to the multicultural brotherhood of man? Or are only english speakers allowed to join that club?
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
It's bad enough that England has spent almost a thousand yrs repreasing the Gaelic language and virtually beating it to a pulp now the few of us that are left can't post in Gaelic: bloodly cheek of us, we are worse than all those bloody Europeans who insist on speaking their own language when we holiday there every year.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by doire
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Sorry if I played an unwitting part in upsetting you over this , Geoff, as it was me who pointed out the duplication. This recording came out as an LP record originally, on the Gael Linn label. I think I’m right in stating that Gael Linn have a policy of releasing all of their recordings with the titles in Irish Gaelic. [ Recordings by Mary Bergin, Jacky Daly and the Desi Wilkinson / Gerry O’Connor recording all spring to mind. ] This is hardly surprising, since their purpose is to “promote the Irish language and its’ heritage”, which they have been doing since 1953, apparently.
I don’t know about the CD, but can guarantee that the title on the cover of the LP record is in Gaelic, and that would be how it came to be posted under that title, which is perfectly logical. I’m also pretty certain that Gael Linn will always print their sleeve notes in Gaelic, but also provide English translation, although maybe not in every case.
If you have reason to object to an Irish record label using Irish Gaelic on its’ recordings, I suggest you contact them and let them know. I have to say , I don’t think you’ll get much sympathy.
Incidentally, a “search” on any of the 4 words Noel, Hill, Tony or MacMahon would have let you see that this recording had already been posted.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Kenny
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Out of curiosity, do you speak only English or can you also converse in Gaidhlig (by the way, the site wouldnt allow me to place the accent over the first *a*)?
leis gach deagh dhúrachd.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
GuernseyPete, I dont even want to get started about your sweeping generalisations, and by the way, you might want to repeat that statement to the children around Ireland being educated through Gaeilge, does that mean that the thousands of (statistically proven) children and their families that I work with on a yearly basis are a figment of my imagination?
I think this post should be renamed *Ignorance of the statistical facts surrounding the Growth of the Irish Language*
I work through Irish, speak it to my child, husband, friends, colleagues, professionals (some of whom are senior civil servants in the British Government, imagine that!) and family who, used it as their mother tongue for centuries until forced to stop, by a foreign government.
Should I stop here? Or will we continue on in this vein? Will we start now on how this attitude affects my daughters rights growing up in an English world as an Irish speaker. Does this mean she is less entitled to what you take for granted? Or will we all just speak English and get it over with?
By the way, Gaeilge is the term we use not Gaelic.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Although I understand Geoff's frustration with not being able to find the tune, I think crying elitist is a little uncalled for. These are sensitive times and being labeled elitist, or racist, or whatsist, makes people feel extremely uncomfortable. One cannot use accusations like that to bully your way through an argument without offending someone.
There are times when you simply have to say what you think, even when it might offend, but accusations of exclusivity (like elitism, etc.) is usually an indication that the problem lies with the accuser feeling excluded.
I don't believe that whoever posted the title in Gaelic intented to exclude anybody, but the Gaelic title obviously makes Geoff feel excluded.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Shrog
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
I totally agree with every reply on this. I haven't the time to tell you exactly how I feel but to Geoff I have no offence towards you. Yesterday I was looking up a name on a search and could quiet easily find the name in both English and Irish when I entered it into the search. Blas and Doire in strongly agree as me being Irish myself. I envy anyone who can speak Irish fluently or who lives in the Gaeltacht as I only learnt the basics when I was young. As far as I can see our language dissappearing and becoming something of the old Ireland and fair play to any Irish speaking person who is speaking it to their family colleagues and friends.
Is minic a bhris béal duine a shrón
Dia Dhuit
Sarfly
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Is treise toil ná tuiscint.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
You seem to know more about my country, the music and people there than I do Pete.
Did you work this out through extensive bouzouki playing and session hosting, or are you just shouting your mouth off....again?
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
These things can be very easily rectified Shrog,and while I agree that trying to translate a different language can be an inconvieniance, if Geoff had put the words into any number of sites that deal with translation of the Irish Language, it shouldnt have been a problem, it just would have taken a bit of digging. Frustration cant be an excuse for sweeping generalisations such as the ones I have read above. A little bit of understanding that we are all different and entitled to claim our respective cultural heritage, would go a long way here.
Had the statements above been used in relation to another minority language, some people on this site would be accused of other things as well of being ignorant.
I am taken a back by the attitude, but sadly not surprised.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Agus aontaím leat a Sarfly!!
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Blas, are you arguing with me or agreeing with me? If you're arguing, then I have been misunderstood, because you are saying exactly what was trying to say.
"Frustration cant be an excuse for sweeping generalisations" = "I understand Geoff's frustration... but I think crying elitist is a little uncalled for."
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Shrog
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Go raibh maith agat Blas.
If anyone would like to know any Irish words eg. for songs, heres a link...
http://www.englishirishdictionary.com/dictionary
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Agreeing very strongly Shrog, except where you state that you felt that Geoff feels excluded, I think *ignorant* is the better choice of word and dont even get me started on Guernsey Pete.
This is an IRISH MUSIC FORUM. Surely the clue is in the description of the site. It must have crossed Geoff's mind that there would be new and interesting things to learn whilst being involved in a site like this. These are the most strongly worded posts that I have ever written, the fact that I felt the need to do it speaks volumes.
I tell you what Geoff and Pete, I promise that I will desist from spouting off rubbish statements about things I dont fully understand...If you two will follow suit.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
I'm afraid I just found this posting a little late, and it pushed my marginally high blood pressure upwards. I could not believe that anyone could be so insensitive, insulting, or asinine on this site. The cheek of us pretending we still have a language, recognised as a Minority Language by the EU (something more had we not been blessed with the company of our friends from the other side of the Irish Sea for the past 850 years or so). I think it's past time we insisted that the French, Spanish, Germans, etc., posted their songs in English.
As I continued to read, my blood pressure dropped a little, thanks to sarfly and blas. Go raibh maith agaibh araon. Ta me buioch dibh mar gheall ar bhur seasamh i gcoinne raimeis mar seo. In case anyone is feeling left out, I thanked Blas and Sarfly for confronting the garbage that we could well do without on this site.
Mairtin
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by frozenstiff
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Oh dear Geoff...
I understand your difficulty and frustration regarding checking for the duplication, but disagree with your elitism comment. I guess many of us are guilty of posting things on the yellow board without thinking things through - then wishing to delete what we've said - myself included!
Best wishes.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Ron P
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Larsheen, this is NOT a political disscussion, and I am surprised that you felt the need to throw that into the mix, and maybe you should also explain to me why it is MY fault that the history between the two countries exists, I hadnt been born yet, and it is a recorded fact that the culture was nearly wiped off the face of the earth. I dont bear any grudges, and quite frankly Larsheen, I dont know where you get the right to brand me a bigot, simply because I took exception to the comments here, which by the way were posted with out consideration to the feelings of others. You dont know me, I dont know if I am more taken aback by the other two or YOU.
The fact that I just happened to be on line at the time when Geoff posted his comment is a coincident.
If you want me to denounce the catholic church Larsheen, then I definately agree with you.
However...
Out of curiousity, what makes you think that I am a catholic? Because I speak Irish, and play the music? Or are you making sweeping generalisations here also?
This is not about religion, politics or anything else of that nature. This is about making derogatory remarks about sections of communities different from *your norm*, in the hope that everyone will studiously ignore it. Sorry, someone was bound to take them up on it.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Time for all of us to learn a new tune!
How about The Reconciliation? A great tune I belive.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Feargal French
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
An bhfuil an díospóireacht seo polaitiúil nó faoi meas i do bharúil a Mhairtín?
Is this dicussion politial or about respect in your opinion?
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Larsheen
Tell us, what is being blamed on others. The last line Geoff said is really what sparked this off,
"This is an Irish music site, not an Irish language site"
Well excuse me all who does not speak Irish but some do and yes songs are submitted Irish titled.
Also no one is blaming Britain, you started with a rant about the Brits. I lived in the North for a part of my life and am now living in the South again for family reasons and I will not say what political party I support but you comment was very maddening. And as for Christian Brothers, my Granduncle was one and an excellent box players but was a man never involved in "abusing".
If you want to continue your anger over politics and religion i am sure there is a few forums that will take you on out there where you can relieve your anger and disturbing comments.
We are here to discuss Irish music and learn from each other and that is what we will continue to do.
Sorcha (Irish for Sarah but I usually go with Sarah)
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Oh and yes maybe Jeremy has permission to send him a "snotty" email, leave him do as he wishes, he is a great man, it would not surprise me if you had received some after your comments as this is an IRISH MUSIC DISCUSSION FORUM.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Larsheen, when you have enough information about the growth of the Irish Language at the present time, then I will discuss it with you. In the meantime, I will pass your sentiments on to the people here knocking their pans in on the ground, oh, and to the nearly thirty Irish Language medium schools I work with. They will be delighted I am sure.
The only one that I can see making political remarks of any strength is you. I dont think that I am on my own here when I say that Geoffs comment along with Pete's, illustrate quite clearly what it is like to deal with ignorance.
I was brought up in Canada (where we learnt to speak French), lived in England, have travelled all over the world to, like you, many different countries, and I am fairly certain, that they would have been equally unsettled by those remarks. They also would have felt it neccessary to point out the fact that it was inappropriate to say the least.
To make a comparison, I'm not fond of church music, but I wouldnt dream of complaining about it and dissing it, simply because I dont understand it. Geoff is into church music as I read from his biog.
All I will say is TOLERANCE AND RESPECT.
For me, your comments actually unsettled me more, with your assumptions about the disscussion that fitted quite nicely in with Geoffs and Petes.
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
I was being tactful when I said foreign government.
Have I missed something here Larsheen or did we invade ourselves?
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Perhaps those of you who are lucky enough to live in Ireland could humour those of us who don't....I can understand why Geoff would find annoying that the same album was posted in a different language even if some people can't. Maybe the answer is if people posted the english translation of the CD title in the comments section (and so people also do a comments search for that title), or Jeremy could include a field similar to "Know this tune by another name" in the CD section?
That said, the language of this board is english as it is the most universally understood. In the same manner that anyone from a french, spanish, etc speaking country wouldn't post in their native language - by and large more people will understand you if you post information in English, it's just courteous to the majority. Anyone deliberately using a language to enable only a certain group of people to access information IS being eliteist (in my opinion), be that language english, german, gaelic or whatever.
If anyone knows of a decent Gaelic - English translation site (ie one that works well), why not stick it up in the links section, or Jeremy could even stick a link to it somewhere prominent??
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Andy V
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Whoops ! or perhaps I should say "Boudiax ! "
Well, I was taught French at school, but don't expect me to do more than swear in it.
Wasn't the original point that if you only publish in one language you exclude those that don't understand it ? I thought we were for inclusivity these days ?
People talk about the renaisance in Gaelic, but the only time I heard it in Eire on my recent visit was on televison, not out in public. At least, when I was a kid, you could hear the older people jabbering away in patois ( my mother came home incensed once, heard two visitors on the bus insisting that the patois speakers only put it on for the tourists ). You know how well a language is being used when you hear the kids swearing in it. I don't say it's not being taught, but I didn't hear it being used.
So at least I have the experience of coming from somewhere where the old language gets supplanted by English. It still seems to me that if you're ONLY going to print anything in Gaelic than it excludes, and if one thing seems true, it is that this music which we all love can break down barriers
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Perhaps Jeremy could put in a Babblefish link so that we can all understand what each other is on about ?
# Posted on June 14th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Lar Sin
I hope you don't mind me arbitrarily changing your name to Gaelic,you referred to me bleming the English for the demise of the Irish language i make no apologies about this,they did the same as the Spanish.French,Belgians and Portuguese in their colonies.You also claim that they didn't obliterate the languages of all theri colonies this is partly true but it wasn't for the want of trying.If had as long in these countries they certainly would have succeeded.It's true that Gaelic is now in serious decline,but to us that cherish it and continue to preserve what is left of it Geoff's attitude is quite frankly appalling.It smacks of an attitude prevelant amoung English speakers all over the world which insists the bloodly natives have a cheek not speaking to them in English.i find ypur attitude strange as you are obviously interested in a MINORITY music,sure nobody plays Trad music in Ireland it's a minority music Country and music is the real thing.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by doire
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
I feel it is quite reasonable for someone who is continually asked to translate their name or address into English or who has to turn to English as soon as one single Engish speaker comes into the company to feel agrieved at someone on a Irish Tred site calling us elitist if we don't translate everything into English because they they don't understand it.It also annoys me when people like Lisheen think that every Irish speaker is a rabid ntionalist who backs the Catholic church'Cj Haughey or the Christian Brothers.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by doire
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
I condemn anyone responsible for the repression language and the state that it find itself in.Lisheen quite clearly states that he will listen to what I have to say if only say what he/she wants to hear.i would gladly attack the Catholic Churches attitude for instance but it wouldn't be half as much as i would have to say about the Anglicans.As for CJ Haughey I think he was the Taoiseach responsible for abolishing the ministry of the Gaeltacht wasn't he.When you go to your next session don't ask for a translation of "na Cannabhain Bhana" an"Phis Fhluich" etc it just demeans the music and the underlying culture.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by doire
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Get a dictionary and a grammar, and work it out for yourself - the first steps in learning a language.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
I have to say I find some of the opinions of the Gaelic speaking members of the board short sighted and counter-productive. You do yourselves no favours in "saving" Irish culture and tradition by using an information website such as this to post extremely useful information in a language which is incomprehensible to the majority of the community here. The gaelic speaking people who deign to save the tradition of Ireland (and I include the music and language here) should bear in mind that people won't translate gaelic, any more than they would german, so important views are ignored.
So they might save the language to a slight degree (if one or two people decide to learn it), but recordings of the "source generations" are hiden behind a language barrier errected by the people who similarly moan that too many people consider Solas, Lunasa or Flook trad music and don't listen to enough old recordings. So if you want to share this information, display it here (and other places) in a manner that is understood easily by most members here, or sacrifice a brilliant opportunity to inform, advise and instruct those who are from different cultures, but who nonetheless express an interest in ITM. Go save the language elsewhere!
I should point out, most people in reality aren't like this, but a disturbing number are leaping in to this discussion without thinking first.
Apologies for any offence, just thought it had to be said. Rant over!
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Andy V
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
** should have said ".....german, so THEIR important views...." I might be able to rant, but I can't type a coherent sentance
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Andy V
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
To put the record straight, I don't speak Gaelic, and, realistically, I don't expect I ever will (I have more pressing linguistic concerns to get to grip with), but I keep a small Irish dictionary and a grammar handy for reference when on a site such as this.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Seo e an focal scor uaimse (my second and last words on the subject).
Why have the initial comments in this thread sparked so much indignation from others and myself? It is because we are Irish and we cherish and value our culture. That's a good reason to belong to this site dedicated to Irish Traditional Music. ITM may have started in Ireland, but now it is the world's to hear, play, enjoy. The Irish Language (beo fos, still alive) is another part of our culture. I for one value it and so do countless others. Because we nearly lost it, we value it all the more. It's not my intention to give a history tutorial (there are books for those interested), but here are a few details to explain where we are today. Irish was our language before the English came and continued to be the spoken language of the Irish people until the 18th century at least. At that time (following the Williamite Wars, Treaty of Limerick, Flight of the Wild Geese, and so on) Penal Laws were introduced which were aimed at suppressing Irish Culture. The music, the religion, the language, etc suffered, but did not die. By 1830 or so, Irish was still the language of the majority. In 1831, the National Schools were established and this institution brought Irish to death's door. Irish was not taught and the speaking of Irish was a punishable offence. (My father was born in 1894 and received all of his education under this system. One day at school, he said something in Irish and was punished for it. But he learned his lesson, he said, and never used it again. The only classmate who was punished frequently was, as my father said, "a biteen soft or a bit of a leath" in other words backward or mentally handicapped and he didn't learn his lesson quickly, poor fellow).At the end of the 19th century, there was a Gaelic Revival movement in literature, games, and language. Connradh na Gaeilge worked to revive and promote the almost dead language. With Independence, Irish was promoted with mixed success down the years. I don't want to open up the compulsory Irish bag, so let's just say that the language lives today, is spoken in some areas as a first language, works in prose and poetry are being published, and we have Irish Language television and radio ( Incidentally, you will find very good programs of ITM, instrumental and vocal on RTE's Raidio na Gaeltachta on the net). Enough history.
This is an ITM site. ITM came down to us from Irish speakers. Every generation adds to that store. Surely this is one site where the language should be valued. That is not to say Irish should ever be used to exclude people or make them feel unwelcome. I for one would be happy to translate if asked. So would others. I have seen a number of threads where such assistance was asked. By the time I got there, many others had already done so.
So yes, I/we are sensitive about our language and given the attempts to eradicate it that should not be surprising. Sin a' meid. That's it.
Mairtin
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by frozenstiff
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
I have a friend, Niamh, who is constantly asked what the English equivalent of her name is. She gets quite p*ssed off by this, understandably. It is the notion that a culture can only exist with reference to another (usually English) that seems to be annoying people here, and possibly the tone of the initial thread. Rather than complaining that a tune or recording is only listed in Irish, why not ASK?
Nobody here is being asked to save the Irish language, but if you're seeking some sort of kudos for parttaking in some wonderful cultural exchange, would it be too much to learn a couple of words? Look at how crudely the language has been bastardised in the "translation" of placenames in the country and how much of the richness has been lost? The notion of cultural exchange is based on giving as well as taking.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by bosco
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
I don't speak any Irish, but I feel really queasy reading this thread. Good on you Mairtin, blas and others who have spoken out. If nothing else good comes out of this thread, at least we get to know who the bigots are.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Dr. Dow
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
To the subject line: deal with it; savor it; learn from it.
Get over your culturally elitist attitude and move to your original goal. Understand the music and the context, whether that be in Irish or in English. Realize that you must sometimes take a step forward, away from your norm. Get over your instincts that everything must be delivered to you on a silver platter.
Chew your own cud.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Jode
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Thanks Jode but I think I'll pass on your last suggestion. I came too late to this discussion to make any very useful contribution.
Bosco - Dow never mentioned how he named my guitar "Niamh"!!
More on topic: I think some albums get sold on one side of the atlantic with titles that are a bit 'As Gaeilge', and have the name changed to English for the American and Australian market. The solution has been made already that before posting it is a good idea to do an artist search under recordings. On the other side if I were to post an Album title under its Gaeilge title I would put the English equivalent (if I know it) in the comments section.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Donough
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
This is bugger all about blaming historical events on the known masses Larsheen, and more about the fact that some people should think carefully about what they are going to write before they post comments here.
The rest of us are wallowing in pools of *careful* words, just in case we may unwittingly upset the ideaologies of others.
It would appear that some members dont have to adhere to the same social rules as others, tell me why the rest of us should ignore it?
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
As for bringing in the future of the Irish Language Larsheen, if you read back I think you will find that you were the one that drove that point on by telling all and sundry here that it is a dying language that no-one cares about even the Irish.
Nice.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Larsheen
You seem to miss my point I do include ourselves as a nation for not maintaining our language and my comments about England were deliberate when Geoff (who I presume is English )accusses Gaelic speakers of being elitist and then crowns it off by TELLING me that this is ITM site.Foregive me Larseen, this attitude displays a complete ignorance of ITM the Gaelic language is so intrically weaved into the fabric of ITM that it is difficult to discuss one without reference to the other.This music is the product of Gaelic irish speaking people
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by doire
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Some of the comments on this issue also display a remarkable ignorance of ITM particularly by you and Guernsey Pete.When some people refer to ITM on this site they are clearly referring to dance music alone.They are the type of people who immediately start talking at a session when a song is called for or tap their instruments impatiently throughout the song.Many also play fast because they think this is what it is all about they also have a total lack of ryhthm because they have never seen Irish music danced to and it never dawns on them that this was it original purpose.This attitude explains the poularity of reels in modern sessions It has been a long time since I have a well played slow air or slip-jig at a session.
The Gaelic language and song is an indistinguishable part of this culture and to understand its music it greatly helps to understand its language.Highlands Slides and Barndances nearly all survive in Gaelic speaking districts alone and this why the local players are best at playing them because they understand the whole culture.The reason you don't like sean-nos may have something to do with your inability to understand the story.Ta me ag meas go bhfuil go leor raite agam fa dtaobh de seo ach seasfidh me sa bhearna bhaoil aris mas ga
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by doire
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Larsheen....
If you care so litte about the language, then why do you play the music? You seem to enjoy rubbing it into our faces about the British Government. At least I can say we are known in our country for talent, culture and generosity and we have some thing to hold on to. By saying that, Im not offending anyone who is English, I have many English friends in London, but Larsheen you have my blood boiling.
Also if one reads down through the discussion, one will notice how Larsheens posts are becoming weaker and weaker so once again us Irish have proven our point.
Go raibh maith agat Blas agus Doire
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
And the session begins once again.....
Buíochas le Dhia
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
I quite like you Larsheen.
It cant be easy holding up a veiw point that others disagree with.
I cant agree with alot that you have written, but I respect your opinion and you are entitled to it, I hope you feel the same about everyone elses opinions too.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
And to be honest, if Larsheen didn't give up, I would have because I haven't had any damn work done here and I'm slacking behind!
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Truthfully Larsheen.......
That was great!!!
I love a wee barney in the afternoon...
Maith thú fhéin, díospóireacht den scoth a bhí ann!
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Oh!!....
..... is that it then?
I was enjoying that.
The English (and English-speaking Scots) gave the Scots Gaelic language a hiding as well during and after the Clearances. Half of them ended up in Canada, where they still speak it. Any way we've got to give the English a slagging today just in case they think they're gonna beat Trinidad and Tobago.
But as for the English language it'll have its day soon and be replaced by Chinese as a global tongue...just as soon as the American Empire falters. All that needs to happen is for countries to whom USA owes money, they just need to ask loans to be repaid in Euros as a US dollar is not printed to the value of each dollar of wealth produced...they're just printed "on trust" as the US dollar is such a strong currency. As for their football team...let's not even GO there.
Also if you want a translation you could try a website like this one:
http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Rudall the time
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Hey Danny, I'm afraid, from what I understand, that there aren't many speakers of Scots Gaelic in Canada at all. And, last count, there were only around 60,000 in Scotland.
However, there's a success story in Wales - Welsh is really thriving. So, it can be done....it just needs lots of bloody-mindedness.
# Posted on June 15th 2006 by Ron P
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Yep Ron, and a telly channel in the language. I believe S4C has made a sigificant contribution to the furthering of the Welsh language:
http://www.learnons4c.co.uk/home.php?c=3
so, as you say it can be done.
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by Rudall the time
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Hey Key maniac Lad, dont forget the 3 new Irish Language channels that operate in Ireland, not to mention the Irish Lang community T.V companies and the loads of radio stations we have over here for the Speakers. I work in the same office space as one of the radio stations here in Belfast. Great craic, oops I mean crack, for all you non-gaeilge.
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Blas - I didn't know about them, never mind forget - so thanks for the info - any websites?
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by Rudall the time
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Yip here you go....
www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/irish/blas
www.rte.ie/rnag
www.tg4.ie
www.nvtv.co.uk
http://channel9.msdn.com
www.srl.ie
then there are - raidío fáilte, míle fáilte, raidío na life, and numerous information sites, comhairle na gaelscolaíochta, conradh na gaelige, foras na gaeilge, www.pobal.org, the list goes on.
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Deary me .... I know I am a bit of a wind-up merchant but didn't expect this much reaction.
The cd in question says it was re-released in 1992 so we would expect the vinyl copy (which may have been Gael Linn and in gaelic, I do have some other records of a similar era which were) to be somewhat extinct - but evidently not.
Sorry to any (of person-kind) who took offence, but I still stand by my original complaint that if you type in the players names and still cannot pick out the cd title from the list because it isn't obvious - It isn't helpful.
Some standardisation is certainly called for so that a search will find what is required. There are other users of this site who don't speak English either so they will find searching doubly difficult when this sort of thing occurs.
:->
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by geoffwright
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
From one wind-up merchant to another:
Geoff, I think half the time some people on here actually *enjoy* getting wound up as the replies they come out with, although strident in their condemnation of the winder-up, are done so at a safe distance and via the protective glass of a computer monitor. I wonder if the said "windées-up" ar so bold in public. (I know as a winder-up I probably am not either!)
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by Rudall the time
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
What are goin on about Geoff? We have had a brill time on the back of your off the cuff comment, I certainly dont harbour any bad feeling toward you.
I actually thought that you were taking the p*ss, and as such I thought the best policy was to badger you out for your real opinion, oh, that and like you I was in a bit of a bad mood!
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
But I still dont agree with your opinion on translating the titles, why dont you learn a new skill and use the search engines to translate for you.
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Ok I'm bored and it has been a long week and I think it's time to start an argument off. I think I will play my whistle and skip lightly around the office playing the most idiotic song ever.
Lets go back to when I was four.............
Blah blah black sheep........ yes sir yes sir.......
And off I go ..............................
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Oh and Geoff, peace man! You certainly started a good one off I must say!
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Sarfly.
Do you ever do any work?
ps, thanks for backing me up on that one! Maybe we should start an Irish Music Mafia
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Did you ever come to a stage that you have so much to do but you just don't know where to start. Plus I am so tired that my head is throbing and I have to go for dinner tonight as my sister finished her Leaving Cert. I don't have days off, I work constantly. I need to be kept occupied, actually maybe I need a life.......
Brown bear in the rain, fah lah lah lah lah ...........
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Hey what you on about!! Your on this as much as I am, plus I am finished work now.
Il take you on tomorrow GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by Sarfly
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
Amen to all of that!
All my colleagues are away off home and I am still in the bloody office, it would make you want to run screaming into the night, especially when you know the house is bogging and the dinner needs doing. As for not knowing where to start, why do you think I was replying to that discussion?
There's nothing like a good drop of procrastination to stop you reaching target dates! Moilleadóireacht mas maith leat!
And if I were you I wouldnt worry too much about not having a life, if you are anything like me at the moment, you wouldnt know what to do with one anyway!!!
Oíche mhaith.
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by blas
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
A bhlais, cha robh fios agam air na stèisin rèidio shuas. Mòran taing!
# Posted on June 16th 2006 by Ron P
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
There are obviously some buttons one just shouldn't push !
A while ago someone printed an item, puportedly from an old-fashioned teacher of the pipes, complaining we were doing it all wrong. This was read as a wind-up, and much enjoyed. To include one line in that style, after the original posting, as I did, was not read as such, and seems to have set everyone off.
Well, doire, for instance; I sing as well as play, I went to my first session about 35 years ago, I play for dance too, and my celtic ancestors left home about 120 years ago, so I may not be fully au fait with every shift in popular received opinions in the Republic.
I just like the music, and would like to be able to read the titles in english, which isn't the official language of my native home either.
And, anyway, isn't this all ancient history ?
Why are we rehashing old resentments ?
We're all europaens now, "We forgave the Germans, and then we were friends ", except for my SO of course, because I married an alien.
TTFN
# Posted on June 17th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Titles of wind-up Recordings in Gaelic splleeing?
76th post wow!!!
Why bother with a translator when 99% of the site is in English?
Must get off - I have to do some serious playing of Irish tunes with English titles (for dosh, of course).
# Posted on June 17th 2006 by geoffwright
Re: Titles of Recording in Gaelic spelling?
's e do bheatha a Ron!
Is that how you say it in Gáidhlig? In Gaeilge we say 'go ndéanfá mhaith a dúit'
# Posted on June 19th 2006 by blas