I wonder what people think are the most and least expressive instruments (in the right hands).
I think I might go for the Uilien pipes (spelling?) as most expressive. You can almost hear them talk, all the vowel sounds and short consonents. I won't say what I think's least expressive for fear of offending (least not yet!).
Any other thoughts?
This is the same posting as the "what is the most difficult"
And the answer is the same "It depends whose playing."
There is a lot of nonsence talked about instruments on this web site. Some being easier, better, harder, more rewarding etc.
It really doesn't matter.
I can say I hate the English concertina. Any instrument that all you have to do is press a button to get a note must be rubbish. Simple argument. but I'd be wrong.
"Flute, because you can feel the heart beat through the breath"?
You can feel your heart beat through your fiddle bowing arm. Heck, you could probably feel it through the plectrum on the banjo.
well said michael.
But, the bit about E concertina? mmm not sure. I like them. They are a bit more mechanical sounding, but Ive recently heard alot of good stuff on them. It all depends on the player!
My unthinking automatic answer to this one would be "the cello" (of course!), but that's being much too parochial, and I agree with michael, on all points.
Yes Michael, it's an opinion thing, that's what makes it interesting, hearing other peoples opinions and why. Every instrument has some theoretical limit to expression and its interesting to hear what people like about the sounds made by them when played by the most expert of us.
Despite being a fiddle player and thinking it is the most expressive of instruments and being totally biased, I really think that the human voice is the most expressive and emotive of instruments possible.
Expressiveness is measured through the player and the instrument. Yes, it can be called a matter of opinion. But, let's look at it from a scientific aspect. An instrument that has the ability for many dynamics would be called an expressive instrument. One with less dynamics could be called less expressive. However, some players play more expressively than others. Also consider that a/an player/instrument can express themselves/itself in different ways. Each instrument ultimately has the ability to be expressed in its own way. How a player expresses themselves, is through their instrument.
Yeah yeah yeah. "From a scientific point of view"??
I thought it was art we were talking about.
And how come Kenn in his orriginal posting likes the pipes, when they have no dynamic range at all?
I agree with Caraaz - it's the human voice. But maybe we should exclude that from the category, as it's a case apart. After all, one of the things that leads an instrument (or someone's playing) to be described as expressive, is that it resembles a voice somehow. (See Kenn's first post).
I think the pipes are fanstastically expressive in the right hands, whatever their technical limitations - and also that they have a large range, if you go from the lowest drone to the highest chanter notes, not forgetting the squeaks as well...
Take a pill, Michael. The pipes have quite the dynamic range when played correctly. Art and science go hand in hand. Ever heard of the Academy of Arts and Sciences?
Dynamic range has only a tiny bit to do with expression. Held and cut notes, grace notes, speed, "swing," etc. have more to do with it in my mind.
As some guy on a poster on my wall said, "Piano playing is much more difficult than statesmanship. It is harder to wake emotions in ivory keys than in a human being."
If you can tell me who said that you get a coupon for a free cookie, redeemable at your local mall.... but don't forget a dollar for the cookie.
As it's true that the most expressive instrument is the human voice, then it follows that the most expressive-sounding musical instrument would be that which is closest to the the voice---fiddle, viola or cello. Obviously if you have not mastered your instrument, you will not be able to use the huge dynamic range and expressive potential of the instrument----it still amazes me how it's possible to make a note swell and disappear to almost a whisper (not that I don't struggle to make those sounds...)
To say that the human voice is the most expressive instrument is perhaps the most obvious answer to this question. The fact that it is the one instrument which is common to just about every musical style and tradition says something to suggest that. But many people, for whatever reason, psychological or physiological, find the voice an inadequate means of expression. Perhaps this is why some people are drawn irresistibly to playing music, or to a particular instrument. For many great players, playing an instrument is almost a substitiute for vocal expression.
This 'expressive' is a very interesting question. Everyone who has replied to it seems to interpret 'expressive' as 'expressive of emotion', or as the ability to convey the inner feelings of the player.
I'd like to put forward a couple of other 'most expressive instrument' contenders...
Most expressive of excitement: Fiddle
The most expressive of amusement: The Jews Harp (listen to the Wright Brothers 'Maid Behind The Bar' on Paddy In The Smoke).
The most expressive of contempt: The 'Pen' of of the admirably thick skinned Michael Gill.
claudine's thought on the flute was lovely. But I think any instrument can be the most expressive if it in teh hands of someone who really loves it, and loves the music and sound it produces. All instruments are different and reflect the person playing them. That's the beautiful thing about music. You can talk without talking.
Helen, that's probably why Ian Carr chooses to play the guitar rather than sing - his voice (in the physiological sense of the word) would be utterly useless at conveying all those bizarre musical sounds which he coaxes out of his guitar.
Maybe I should explain that my comment about the flute was rather meant as a joke. I do believe that the most expressive instrument is the instrument which is played by the most expressive player. But as flute is my personal favourite, I thought I could try to influence folks a bit
The entire reason I'm replying to this post is because you mentioned the Uilleann (correct spelling) Pipes. I just heard them the other day and Instantly, I wanted one. They are truly expressive, but when I stopped to think about it they are not the MOST expressive.
I'm a trumpet player by trade, but I play a lot of other instruments (although not so well) and the reason I like the pipes is because the player has complete command over the entire range of the instrument (almost the same range as a trumpet, excluding players like Arturo Sandoval and Maynard Ferguson). I don't think this question is one of opinion at all; everything can be meassured. A few people made reference to the human voice being the most expressive instrument. I agree that we should leave it out of this thread, but also that we recognize that the most expressive instrument is the one that can best emulate the qualities of the human voice (and surpass?).
This is by no means a definitive answer, but I like to judge instrument expression on these traits(in no particular order):
1. Range - The human voice has mirad of ranges, from contra bass to contra soprano. I think the most expressive instrument will have a range to match ( I would say to surpass, but if you've ever heard a castrato sing their highest note, or heard an opera singer sing whistle tones, then I don't think you would want to hear anything higher... but that's just me).
2. Command - The ability and ease of playing what you want to play, when you want to play it. I'll add subcategories to this by saying command over range, tone, pitch, and volume.
3. Chords - The human voice can sing up to three notes at once, although not popular in western singing, it is a popular eastern style, and its obviously very popular to do instrumental (leaving out some Celtic folk music).
Now to judge. I'll assume that our musician is a virtuoso, but I will also be practical. I will leave out electronic synthesizers, Percussion, and plucked strings (simply because a bowed string can do everything a plucked one can).
---Brass Instruments (my beloved trumpet included)
-Range - Here is where practicality takes place. Brass instruments have a virtually limitless upper range, it all depends on how hard you can squeeze your face, but practically speaking anything higher that 2 concert B flats above the treble scale is not going to happen. On top of that, the lower range is almost set in stone apart from the muddy sounding pedal tones.
Command
-Range - Chris Botti is a good example of a brass player with mastery of the range. He can bounce around in any one or two octaves with ease, but even he cant play from the bottom to the top without breaks and a noticeable strain.
-Tone - This is where brass instruments shine. A virtuoso player can make their sound mellow enough to put a baby to sleep or shrill enough to make the weak wince in pain. Although to get the extremes you will need to switch mouthpieces, which can be a pain.
-Pitch - Command over pitch on brass instruments are somewhat okay, kind of. Only selective notes throughout the range of each instrument will bend. Of course the slide trombone is an exception to this, giving the musician complete control over bends and tuning.
-Volume - No contest. Brass instruments easily outplay every other acoustic instrument in terms of volume.
Chords - None to speak of
--Woodwinds
-Range - most all woodwinds have a definite range although some flute players can really get up there.
Command
-Range - These instruments annoy me as a brass player because they can jump around and arpeggiate there entire range with relative ease. The only problem is the 'break' that is built into most reed-ed instruments (excusing the flute from this problem), but I imagine a virtuoso wouldn't have much of an issue with that.
Tone - The command over tone given to musicians by these instruments is notable, but not as impressive as a brass instrument. Some mouthpieces include spoilers that can dramatically change the tone, but considering the time it takes to change most of them, it's not really a practical idea to switch during a song.
Pitch - The word 'bend' comes from the ability of a reed to literally bend due to the player putting enough air pressure on it. What I'm saying is that woodwind instruments (flute included) are given lots of command over their pitch with this ability.
Volume - This is were most woodwinds lack. As a wind instrument, the best way to play louder is to blow harder. Well like I said above, by blowing harder and creating more air pressure, your instrument will bend further and further out of tune until the whole thing culminates in a god awful squeak, which will make all the brass players laugh at you.
Chords - I hate organs, but they and harmonicas are the only reed instruments I know of that can play chords.
Finally, I'll just say this now: I think the most expressive instruments are strings.
Range - Obviously these instruments have a definite range. However, the fact that even with a limited range, they still have just about as large a range as a piano, and the fact that they can play clearly in the extreme upper register means they take this cake.
Command:
-Range - With no break, stringed instruments have a nearly unrivaled command over their range in the quick hands of a virtuoso.
-Tone - In my own opinion, I don't think strings have as much ability to change their tone as brass does, but by listening to the violinists in restaurants and a screeching fiddle it becomes obvious that their command over tone is not to be looked over.
-Pitch - Any non-fretted string instrument is going to have absolute control over their pitch. Its just that simple.
-Volume - Strings volume depends on their size, which is limited by the musician, which we know is not going to be the jolly green giant. Still, with a bow a string instrument can both whisper and be loud enough to fill a concert hall with good acoustics without a mic, just not while everyone else is playing.
Chords - Yes, strings have the ability to play more than one note at a time, giving them yet another leg up against all others. There's a reason these instruments have been around so long.
So there you have it: my reasoning to why i think strings are the most expressive instrument. I'll go a step further and say violins, because I have not heard a type of music yet, eastern or western, that consistently puts the melody in the alto, tenor, or bass line.
And just for Kenn - The Uilleann Pipes have a definite, relatively small range (two octave), with excellent command over the whole of it. The most command over tone they have is its ability to squeak more if you press the bag harder. They can bend most every note (although I'm not sure because I've never played one, just watched allot of people who do), they have very little control over volume from what I can tell, and obviously, with regulators and/or drones, they can play chords.
Most expressive instruments
Most expressive instruments
I wonder what people think are the most and least expressive instruments (in the right hands).
I think I might go for the Uilien pipes (spelling?) as most expressive. You can almost hear them talk, all the vowel sounds and short consonents. I won't say what I think's least expressive for fear of offending (least not yet!).
Any other thoughts?
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by Kenn
Re: Most expressive instruments
Flute, of course. You can feel the heartbeat of the player through his breath.
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by claudine
Re: Most expressive instruments
This is the same posting as the "what is the most difficult"
And the answer is the same "It depends whose playing."
There is a lot of nonsence talked about instruments on this web site. Some being easier, better, harder, more rewarding etc.
It really doesn't matter.
I can say I hate the English concertina. Any instrument that all you have to do is press a button to get a note must be rubbish. Simple argument. but I'd be wrong.
"Flute, because you can feel the heart beat through the breath"?
You can feel your heart beat through your fiddle bowing arm. Heck, you could probably feel it through the plectrum on the banjo.
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by ...
Re: Most expressive instruments
well said michael.
But, the bit about E concertina? mmm not sure. I like them. They are a bit more mechanical sounding, but Ive recently heard alot of good stuff on them. It all depends on the player!
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by dexter
sorry mate. I read your posting wrong!! Forget what I said about the concertina!well said
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by dexter
Re: Most expressive instruments
My unthinking automatic answer to this one would be "the cello" (of course!), but that's being much too parochial, and I agree with michael, on all points.
m
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Most expressive instruments
Yes Michael, it's an opinion thing, that's what makes it interesting, hearing other peoples opinions and why. Every instrument has some theoretical limit to expression and its interesting to hear what people like about the sounds made by them when played by the most expert of us.
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by Kenn
Re: Most expressive instruments
Flute, because you can smell the player's breath through his playing... hmm, nevermind!
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by glauber
Re: Most expressive instruments
Despite being a fiddle player and thinking it is the most expressive of instruments and being totally biased, I really think that the human voice is the most expressive and emotive of instruments possible.
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by Caraaz
Re: Most expressive instruments
I've heard a few tunes (and songs) done on kazoo that almost made me cry... I call that emotive.
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by Trinil
Re: Most expressive instruments
Expressiveness is measured through the player and the instrument. Yes, it can be called a matter of opinion. But, let's look at it from a scientific aspect. An instrument that has the ability for many dynamics would be called an expressive instrument. One with less dynamics could be called less expressive. However, some players play more expressively than others. Also consider that a/an player/instrument can express themselves/itself in different ways. Each instrument ultimately has the ability to be expressed in its own way. How a player expresses themselves, is through their instrument.
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by SPeak
Re: Most expressive instruments
Yeah yeah yeah. "From a scientific point of view"??
I thought it was art we were talking about.
And how come Kenn in his orriginal posting likes the pipes, when they have no dynamic range at all?
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by ...
Re: Most expressive instruments
I agree with Caraaz - it's the human voice. But maybe we should exclude that from the category, as it's a case apart. After all, one of the things that leads an instrument (or someone's playing) to be described as expressive, is that it resembles a voice somehow. (See Kenn's first post).
I think the pipes are fanstastically expressive in the right hands, whatever their technical limitations - and also that they have a large range, if you go from the lowest drone to the highest chanter notes, not forgetting the squeaks as well...
# Posted on October 27th 2002 by Nell
Re: Most expressive instruments
Have no doubt - It is indeed a matter of opinion. There is one exception - MY VIOLIN is the most expressive instrument in the world.
Mark
# Posted on October 28th 2002 by Mark Cordova
Re: Most expressive instruments
I said the pipes have no " dynamic " range
# Posted on October 28th 2002 by ...
Re: Most expressive instruments
Whoops, sorry Michael - just realised what you said, too late! Point taken. Hard to play quietly on the pipes...
# Posted on October 28th 2002 by Nell
Re: Most expressive instruments
Take a pill, Michael. The pipes have quite the dynamic range when played correctly. Art and science go hand in hand. Ever heard of the Academy of Arts and Sciences?
# Posted on October 28th 2002 by SPeak
Re: Most expressive instruments
It's not the instrument, it's the player.
Dynamic range has only a tiny bit to do with expression. Held and cut notes, grace notes, speed, "swing," etc. have more to do with it in my mind.
As some guy on a poster on my wall said, "Piano playing is much more difficult than statesmanship. It is harder to wake emotions in ivory keys than in a human being."
If you can tell me who said that you get a coupon for a free cookie, redeemable at your local mall.... but don't forget a dollar for the cookie.
# Posted on October 28th 2002 by no longer exists
Re: Most expressive instruments
As it's true that the most expressive instrument is the human voice, then it follows that the most expressive-sounding musical instrument would be that which is closest to the the voice---fiddle, viola or cello. Obviously if you have not mastered your instrument, you will not be able to use the huge dynamic range and expressive potential of the instrument----it still amazes me how it's possible to make a note swell and disappear to almost a whisper (not that I don't struggle to make those sounds...)
# Posted on October 28th 2002 by aoife
Re: Most expressive instruments
To say that the human voice is the most expressive instrument is perhaps the most obvious answer to this question. The fact that it is the one instrument which is common to just about every musical style and tradition says something to suggest that. But many people, for whatever reason, psychological or physiological, find the voice an inadequate means of expression. Perhaps this is why some people are drawn irresistibly to playing music, or to a particular instrument. For many great players, playing an instrument is almost a substitiute for vocal expression.
# Posted on October 29th 2002 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Most expressive instruments
Ian Carr says that when he's playing, his guitar *is* his voice... (nobody could ever sing like that, mind!)
# Posted on October 29th 2002 by Nell
Re: Most expressive instruments
This 'expressive' is a very interesting question. Everyone who has replied to it seems to interpret 'expressive' as 'expressive of emotion', or as the ability to convey the inner feelings of the player.
I'd like to put forward a couple of other 'most expressive instrument' contenders...
Most expressive of excitement: Fiddle
The most expressive of amusement: The Jews Harp (listen to the Wright Brothers 'Maid Behind The Bar' on Paddy In The Smoke).
The most expressive of contempt: The 'Pen' of of the admirably thick skinned Michael Gill.
# Posted on October 29th 2002 by Ottery
Re: Most expressive instruments
claudine's thought on the flute was lovely. But I think any instrument can be the most expressive if it in teh hands of someone who really loves it, and loves the music and sound it produces. All instruments are different and reflect the person playing them. That's the beautiful thing about music. You can talk without talking.
idgie
# Posted on October 29th 2002 by idgie
Re: Most expressive instruments
Good science is dispassionate.
Art most certainly is not
# Posted on October 30th 2002 by ...
Re: Most expressive instruments
Helen, that's probably why Ian Carr chooses to play the guitar rather than sing - his voice (in the physiological sense of the word) would be utterly useless at conveying all those bizarre musical sounds which he coaxes out of his guitar.
# Posted on October 31st 2002 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Most expressive instruments
Maybe I should explain that my comment about the flute was rather meant as a joke. I do believe that the most expressive instrument is the instrument which is played by the most expressive player. But as flute is my personal favourite, I thought I could try to influence folks a bit
# Posted on November 5th 2002 by claudine
Re: Most expressive instruments
I'm fairly certain I'm the dumbest person on the list serve, and I could tell you were joking, Claudine!
# Posted on November 5th 2002 by cuchulain54
Re: Most expressive instruments
The entire reason I'm replying to this post is because you mentioned the Uilleann (correct spelling) Pipes. I just heard them the other day and Instantly, I wanted one. They are truly expressive, but when I stopped to think about it they are not the MOST expressive.
I'm a trumpet player by trade, but I play a lot of other instruments (although not so well) and the reason I like the pipes is because the player has complete command over the entire range of the instrument (almost the same range as a trumpet, excluding players like Arturo Sandoval and Maynard Ferguson). I don't think this question is one of opinion at all; everything can be meassured. A few people made reference to the human voice being the most expressive instrument. I agree that we should leave it out of this thread, but also that we recognize that the most expressive instrument is the one that can best emulate the qualities of the human voice (and surpass?).
This is by no means a definitive answer, but I like to judge instrument expression on these traits(in no particular order):
1. Range - The human voice has mirad of ranges, from contra bass to contra soprano. I think the most expressive instrument will have a range to match ( I would say to surpass, but if you've ever heard a castrato sing their highest note, or heard an opera singer sing whistle tones, then I don't think you would want to hear anything higher... but that's just me).
2. Command - The ability and ease of playing what you want to play, when you want to play it. I'll add subcategories to this by saying command over range, tone, pitch, and volume.
3. Chords - The human voice can sing up to three notes at once, although not popular in western singing, it is a popular eastern style, and its obviously very popular to do instrumental (leaving out some Celtic folk music).
(check out this youtube video of a Tuvan throat singer using overtones to sing two notes at once; a third can also be whistled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=reAy92u3Mxw&v=DY1pcEtHI_w)
Now to judge. I'll assume that our musician is a virtuoso, but I will also be practical. I will leave out electronic synthesizers, Percussion, and plucked strings (simply because a bowed string can do everything a plucked one can).
---Brass Instruments (my beloved trumpet included)
-Range - Here is where practicality takes place. Brass instruments have a virtually limitless upper range, it all depends on how hard you can squeeze your face, but practically speaking anything higher that 2 concert B flats above the treble scale is not going to happen. On top of that, the lower range is almost set in stone apart from the muddy sounding pedal tones.
Command
-Range - Chris Botti is a good example of a brass player with mastery of the range. He can bounce around in any one or two octaves with ease, but even he cant play from the bottom to the top without breaks and a noticeable strain.
-Tone - This is where brass instruments shine. A virtuoso player can make their sound mellow enough to put a baby to sleep or shrill enough to make the weak wince in pain. Although to get the extremes you will need to switch mouthpieces, which can be a pain.
-Pitch - Command over pitch on brass instruments are somewhat okay, kind of. Only selective notes throughout the range of each instrument will bend. Of course the slide trombone is an exception to this, giving the musician complete control over bends and tuning.
-Volume - No contest. Brass instruments easily outplay every other acoustic instrument in terms of volume.
Chords - None to speak of
--Woodwinds
-Range - most all woodwinds have a definite range although some flute players can really get up there.
Command
-Range - These instruments annoy me as a brass player because they can jump around and arpeggiate there entire range with relative ease. The only problem is the 'break' that is built into most reed-ed instruments (excusing the flute from this problem), but I imagine a virtuoso wouldn't have much of an issue with that.
Tone - The command over tone given to musicians by these instruments is notable, but not as impressive as a brass instrument. Some mouthpieces include spoilers that can dramatically change the tone, but considering the time it takes to change most of them, it's not really a practical idea to switch during a song.
Pitch - The word 'bend' comes from the ability of a reed to literally bend due to the player putting enough air pressure on it. What I'm saying is that woodwind instruments (flute included) are given lots of command over their pitch with this ability.
Volume - This is were most woodwinds lack. As a wind instrument, the best way to play louder is to blow harder. Well like I said above, by blowing harder and creating more air pressure, your instrument will bend further and further out of tune until the whole thing culminates in a god awful squeak, which will make all the brass players laugh at you.
Chords - I hate organs, but they and harmonicas are the only reed instruments I know of that can play chords.
Finally, I'll just say this now: I think the most expressive instruments are strings.
Range - Obviously these instruments have a definite range. However, the fact that even with a limited range, they still have just about as large a range as a piano, and the fact that they can play clearly in the extreme upper register means they take this cake.
Command:
-Range - With no break, stringed instruments have a nearly unrivaled command over their range in the quick hands of a virtuoso.
-Tone - In my own opinion, I don't think strings have as much ability to change their tone as brass does, but by listening to the violinists in restaurants and a screeching fiddle it becomes obvious that their command over tone is not to be looked over.
-Pitch - Any non-fretted string instrument is going to have absolute control over their pitch. Its just that simple.
-Volume - Strings volume depends on their size, which is limited by the musician, which we know is not going to be the jolly green giant. Still, with a bow a string instrument can both whisper and be loud enough to fill a concert hall with good acoustics without a mic, just not while everyone else is playing.
Chords - Yes, strings have the ability to play more than one note at a time, giving them yet another leg up against all others. There's a reason these instruments have been around so long.
So there you have it: my reasoning to why i think strings are the most expressive instrument. I'll go a step further and say violins, because I have not heard a type of music yet, eastern or western, that consistently puts the melody in the alto, tenor, or bass line.
And just for Kenn - The Uilleann Pipes have a definite, relatively small range (two octave), with excellent command over the whole of it. The most command over tone they have is its ability to squeak more if you press the bag harder. They can bend most every note (although I'm not sure because I've never played one, just watched allot of people who do), they have very little control over volume from what I can tell, and obviously, with regulators and/or drones, they can play chords.
# Posted on February 21st 2010 by TPDR