I've just come back from a session where a (slightly drunk) punter asked to borrow a bodhran from the bodhran player, who adamantly refused to hand his instrument over. The punter went on to claim that in Irish sessions (he also claimed to be Irish) the musicians would willingly lend their instrument to a punter because ITM is supposed to be inclusive and the musicians want to encourage newcomers (and further went on to accuse the session of "defiling the music of his homeland"). Has anyone known this to happen anywhere in Ireland, the main impression I got was a lot sessions were paid musicians playing for the benefit of the tourists (during the holiday-season at least)? I haven't yet managed to do a session tour of Ireland so I can't comment myself, but the punter's claims seem kinda unlikely to me?!? Otherwise I'm missing out and I'll be taking myself over there asap
Personally I would be as likely to hand my own child over to a total stranger as I would be to hand an instrument of mine over to any 'punter', drunk or no!
Another musician, that's a different story.
You would need to be drunk yourself, to be daft enough to give your instrument to any slabbering eejit in a pub!
Sounds like this drunken buffoon was doing more to damege the image of Ireland than you guys.
Well, there's "free for all" nonsense gatherings in Ireland(as elsewhere) where eedjits like that get away with such behaviour but it's not the norm.
Yes, there's paid sessions in the tourist season and they're catching on over here(Scotland too ) but there's also plenty of regular gatherings too. However, those which would encourage such obnoxious behaviour are few and far between!
To answer the second part of your question Andy, there are loads of sessions all over Ireland, where a core group of musicians are paid to turn up each week, throughout the year, without fail, to ensure that the session rolls on.
Other musicians turn up to these sessions because they are learning to play or just drop in now & then, but are not part of the 'money deal', or perhaps because they already have large wads of money coming in every week & don't need the cash, or they prefer to play play for fun only, or they only turn out when they can be bothered.
In some of the tourist areas there are the other type of paid sessions, the sort John was speaking of, which are not, as a general rule friendly, open sessions, but more paid gigs, disguised as sessions to fool the tourists & usually musicians who are passing through are not that welcome at those!
I was at a session not far from Dingle a few years ago where someone asked to borrow my accordion. I'm a little hazy on the details. Either the bartender warned me in advance that i shouldn't and I didn't, or that happened the second time after I had fallen for it the previous week. Anyway, this guy played the melodies to rebel songs loud enough to break a reed. I guess I must have fallen for it once, otherwise I wouldn't be able to tell the story.
Andy, stay in England for unpaid, spontaneous sessions. In Leeds, at least while I was staying for a year, musicians were "allowed" to play in several quiet pubs. You can't get free pints, and sometimes attendance drops significantly. Of course, you have some great guests a few times a year like this: http://www.travellersinleeds.co.uk/_travellers/JohnRooneyRecording.html Noisy punters show up once in a while, but retired musicians and musicians' friends often help you sort it out. There's no pressure to play as many tunes as possible: you can feel free to sit back and listen or chat with others if you don't know the tunes or just don't feel like playing. That's the way it is. I was very fortunate to join a few similar sessions in London. Well, I got quite a few free pints and some glasses of whisky as a guest there!
I regularly go back to Ireland to join some nice and friendly sessions, but always feel annoyed when ignorant punters or tourists try to lecture this exotic-looking visitor, who has a flute and a "piccolo", on traditional Irish music. I don't say "I know this sort of music 10 times better than you do" but chat and play a few tunes with the local musicians to make them shut up.
I think you would have to define the term "session" before discussing its' realities.
We might take for granted, something that is quite foreign to the locals
for which we describe our most recent visits and our circle of friends.
I have seen all kinds of "Sessions", in Ireland, from Dingle, Killarney, Ennis, Galway, and more,
some in Leeds, and played in both Ireland and
here in USA(only small towns or private).
How can you ever say that a session isn't multidimensional?
I watched Owen O'Neill lead a session in Ennis that had
4 flutes
13 fiddles
3 guitars
1 concertina
1 bodhran
2 mandolins
2 bouzoukis
several whistles
Very impressive. This was NOT a slow session.
He was able to keep it moving right along.
The next night, at Cruises, a professional led several friends
for a perfectly acceptable tourist session. Who would know the difference
but another invited , or not, musician?
As musicians, we want to play.
As visiting musicians, we will try to get some play time.
As gracious hosts, an effort might or might not be made to help us engage with other musicians.
As humble visiting musicians, we will wait as long as we can stand it before
suggesting that we might be able to make a meaningful contribution.
And then, it still might not happen. After all that explanation.
We were surprised at Corofin when a dozen tattooed, shaven-headed football fans took over our corner and took all the space up. Though plastered, one of them wanted a go on anglo, and yes, he could play brilliantly.
(He played someone else, not mine)
To answer the original post....
I saw that happen in Taffe's of Galway one night, to Danish Anders something or other playing his box.
The Irish guy pretty much said everything that was said to your friend. He went on for a while, but nobody listened. Nobody got offended. He contributed to his own ignorance, in that he was sat waffling to himself about his so called culture while everyone else enjoyed the music. that'll happen every now and again, but its not a big problem.
@larsheen
Just as a point of interest besides being a fantastic bouzouki player Eoin O'Neill is also a very good fiddle player and usually plays fiddle when leading a session.
You guys missed something in Andy's original post., and have blown this out of proportion. It's not like this obnoxious guy was asking to borrow a real instrument, just a bodhran.......
Reality of sessions in Ireland?
Reality of sessions in Ireland?
I've just come back from a session where a (slightly drunk) punter asked to borrow a bodhran from the bodhran player, who adamantly refused to hand his instrument over. The punter went on to claim that in Irish sessions (he also claimed to be Irish) the musicians would willingly lend their instrument to a punter because ITM is supposed to be inclusive and the musicians want to encourage newcomers (and further went on to accuse the session of "defiling the music of his homeland"). Has anyone known this to happen anywhere in Ireland, the main impression I got was a lot sessions were paid musicians playing for the benefit of the tourists (during the holiday-season at least)? I haven't yet managed to do a session tour of Ireland so I can't comment myself, but the punter's claims seem kinda unlikely to me?!? Otherwise I'm missing out and I'll be taking myself over there asap
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by Andy V
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
This is an age-old tactic. Just tell him he's defiling the graciousness of the Irish people with his abominable behavior.
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
Personally I would be as likely to hand my own child over to a total stranger as I would be to hand an instrument of mine over to any 'punter', drunk or no!
Another musician, that's a different story.
You would need to be drunk yourself, to be daft enough to give your instrument to any slabbering eejit in a pub!
Sounds like this drunken buffoon was doing more to damege the image of Ireland than you guys.
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
Well, there's "free for all" nonsense gatherings in Ireland(as elsewhere) where eedjits like that get away with such behaviour but it's not the norm.
) but there's also plenty of regular gatherings too. However, those which would encourage such obnoxious behaviour are few and far between!
Yes, there's paid sessions in the tourist season and they're catching on over here(Scotland too
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by John J.
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
To answer the second part of your question Andy, there are loads of sessions all over Ireland, where a core group of musicians are paid to turn up each week, throughout the year, without fail, to ensure that the session rolls on.
Other musicians turn up to these sessions because they are learning to play or just drop in now & then, but are not part of the 'money deal', or perhaps because they already have large wads of money coming in every week & don't need the cash, or they prefer to play play for fun only, or they only turn out when they can be bothered.
In some of the tourist areas there are the other type of paid sessions, the sort John was speaking of, which are not, as a general rule friendly, open sessions, but more paid gigs, disguised as sessions to fool the tourists & usually musicians who are passing through are not that welcome at those!
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
I was at a session not far from Dingle a few years ago where someone asked to borrow my accordion. I'm a little hazy on the details. Either the bartender warned me in advance that i shouldn't and I didn't, or that happened the second time after I had fallen for it the previous week. Anyway, this guy played the melodies to rebel songs loud enough to break a reed. I guess I must have fallen for it once, otherwise I wouldn't be able to tell the story.
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
Andy, stay in England for unpaid, spontaneous sessions. In Leeds, at least while I was staying for a year, musicians were "allowed" to play in several quiet pubs. You can't get free pints, and sometimes attendance drops significantly. Of course, you have some great guests a few times a year like this: http://www.travellersinleeds.co.uk/_travellers/JohnRooneyRecording.html Noisy punters show up once in a while, but retired musicians and musicians' friends often help you sort it out. There's no pressure to play as many tunes as possible: you can feel free to sit back and listen or chat with others if you don't know the tunes or just don't feel like playing. That's the way it is. I was very fortunate to join a few similar sessions in London. Well, I got quite a few free pints and some glasses of whisky as a guest there!
I regularly go back to Ireland to join some nice and friendly sessions, but always feel annoyed when ignorant punters or tourists try to lecture this exotic-looking visitor, who has a flute and a "piccolo", on traditional Irish music. I don't say "I know this sort of music 10 times better than you do" but chat and play a few tunes with the local musicians to make them shut up.
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by slainte
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
Sh*t Slainte! I hope I didn't try & lecture you?
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
I think you would have to define the term "session" before discussing its' realities.
We might take for granted, something that is quite foreign to the locals
for which we describe our most recent visits and our circle of friends.
I have seen all kinds of "Sessions", in Ireland, from Dingle, Killarney, Ennis, Galway, and more,
some in Leeds, and played in both Ireland and
here in USA(only small towns or private).
How can you ever say that a session isn't multidimensional?
I watched Owen O'Neill lead a session in Ennis that had
4 flutes
13 fiddles
3 guitars
1 concertina
1 bodhran
2 mandolins
2 bouzoukis
several whistles
Very impressive. This was NOT a slow session.
He was able to keep it moving right along.
The next night, at Cruises, a professional led several friends
for a perfectly acceptable tourist session. Who would know the difference
but another invited , or not, musician?
As musicians, we want to play.
As visiting musicians, we will try to get some play time.
As gracious hosts, an effort might or might not be made to help us engage with other musicians.
As humble visiting musicians, we will wait as long as we can stand it before
suggesting that we might be able to make a meaningful contribution.
And then, it still might not happen. After all that explanation.
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by wvwhistler
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
We were surprised at Corofin when a dozen tattooed, shaven-headed football fans took over our corner and took all the space up. Though plastered, one of them wanted a go on anglo, and yes, he could play brilliantly.
(He played someone else, not mine)
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by geoffwright
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
To answer the original post....
I saw that happen in Taffe's of Galway one night, to Danish Anders something or other playing his box.
The Irish guy pretty much said everything that was said to your friend. He went on for a while, but nobody listened. Nobody got offended. He contributed to his own ignorance, in that he was sat waffling to himself about his so called culture while everyone else enjoyed the music. that'll happen every now and again, but its not a big problem.
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
@larsheen
Just as a point of interest besides being a fantastic bouzouki player Eoin O'Neill is also a very good fiddle player and usually plays fiddle when leading a session.
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by Bernie
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
You guys missed something in Andy's original post., and have blown this out of proportion. It's not like this obnoxious guy was asking to borrow a real instrument, just a bodhran.......
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
Shoot Larsheen, you must be older than you look! - "Rowan and Martin" So you can remember Goldie Hawn too, before she became really famous!
Say goodnight Dick - Goodnight Dick
(No - you see my name really is .......oh, never mind.............)
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
Third one down:
http://www.patricklatimer.co.za/CartoonsGanAinm.htm
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by Q
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
Yup, I think at some point he did actually use that argument Al....didn't seem to help him at all though!
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by Andy V
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
The one with Grizelda is still my favorite.
# Posted on May 25th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Reality of sessions in Ireland?
Neither a borrower nor a lender be !
# Posted on May 26th 2006 by breandan